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  1. #21
    Senior Member animalcontrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdempsey View Post
    All of my quilts are entirely custom made and sized to the user and their preferences. None of them have names or models currently.
    call me confused, but I don't know of any other cottage maker who is doing 100% custom work. I'll promise you JRB isn't!
    FWIW, the criteria I see set down in this thread would stop anyone besides JRB from putting down between 2 pieces of nylon. Sorry, but IMO, that is painting with too broad a brush.

    My $0.02...jdempsey is willing to do custom work when others are not...and he has the right to!
    "Every day is a new day to a better future"
    "Of all the things that matter, that really and truly matter, working more efficiently and getting more done is not among them." ~ Mike Dooley
    "What if I told you that you couldn't have anymore of anything... No more friends, no more money, no more anything, until you first got happy with what you have?"~ Mike Dooley
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." ~ Socrates

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    Ok - thanks. I guess I'd echo Dutch's concerns, then. This community tends to value integrity and fair business practices at least as much as price and value, and what you have is very similar to JRB's product line. Changing a few inches of length or width doesn't make a new design, but keeping the major features of JRB's line - the headhole on a hammock quilt, making a flat quilt into a footbox with either velcro or snaps (JRB does have grosgrain at the top of their quilts to secure the omni-tape), and the same footbox gathering method - looks like you're profiting from their R&D.

    That's a common business strategy in the cutthroat world of business...it's why you see Burger Kings across from many McDonalds; BK lets McD's do the market research for where to place a new store, then the other fast food restaurants build next to them. But HF members tend to be a bit more finicky about who they deal with than fast food customers!

    I'm not a lawyer, but I think that JRB would have a case against you if this were a patented item. There really isn't anything substantially different about that quilt. And while they may not take legal action, it's still questionable in my opinion. The fact that three members in 19 posts have brought it up should send you a signal.

    Offered in the same spirit as Dutch...just trying to point out to a new member that HF, and the hammocking community in general, operates a bit differently than most other groups.

    So since Ford came out with the first massed product car, Honda, Toyota, GM, Mazda, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Mercedes, Hyundai, Chrysler, Jeep, and the million other car companies shouldn't make the same things? And before you use the argument that they're different, they aren't. A 4 door sedan is a 4 door sedan regardless of what you'd like to think. They all have 4 wheels and by means of an engine move from point "A" to point "B". If the "Stateless" can make a better product for the money, then by all means do so. It's called capitalism and if they aren't patented, then it isn't protected. Free market competition actually inspires innovation, natural price adjusting and profitability. If only one company made a certain item, they could charge whatever price they deemed it, whereas if they have competitors, they must be priced accordingly.

    As far as the hammock community being different, I know there have been lawsuits served to manufacturers by manufacturers that are on this very site. The manufacturers on this site that have thousands, if not millions, of dollars invested in their businesses will do what it takes to remain open, profitable and competitive in price. If that includes taking a sample from another company and implementing it into their product line, or protecting their intellectual rights, they will. If not, they won't be in business long term.

    I could bring up the perfect example, but I think most of us know what I'm referencing.

  3. #23
    Senior Member G.L.P.'s Avatar
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    I could bring up the perfect example, but I think most of us know what I'm referencing


    i think i missed something ?



    i agree and car is a car....and quilt is a quilt...
    but at the same time a ford has a ford engine ....a chevy has a chevy engine
    a ford has sync...chevy has onstar
    do you think ford would be mad if chevy made a clone of the F150 ...i think so


    it's not that he is making quilts...it's that he is making quilts the same way the jacks do....and they look just like a JRB quilt
    let look at Stormcrows quilts...there quilts yes?....but they are made different then the Jacks quilts ...there original
    i think the main thing is if your going to sell something be original.....
    sell something that is your work...not the work of others
    It puts the Underquilt on it's hammock ... It does this whenever it gets cold

  4. #24
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    We need to give jdempsey back his thread. It has been hijacked for quite a while now.


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
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    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member animalcontrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCPatrick View Post
    We need to give jdempsey back his thread. It has been hijacked for quite a while now.
    agreed...
    should we start a new thread to discuss what is OK to produce for profit and what isn't?

    We currently have at least 20 vendors on this site. Are they all unique? Not in my opinion, but you guys moderate this site and I'll happily bow out of this discussion.
    "Every day is a new day to a better future"
    "Of all the things that matter, that really and truly matter, working more efficiently and getting more done is not among them." ~ Mike Dooley
    "What if I told you that you couldn't have anymore of anything... No more friends, no more money, no more anything, until you first got happy with what you have?"~ Mike Dooley
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." ~ Socrates

  6. #26
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Folks, Javan has already stated that he has decided to no longer make quilts with that feature. So this is a conversation about something that no longer exists...

    Javan is offering full custom quilt work, to your own spec... That seems like a valuable service to me! Let's embrace it, and move forward.... there's room enough at HF for ALL KINDS of vendors and their gear.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  7. #27
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    Thoughts from a serial entrepreneur

    At the risk of being discredited for being relatively new to this forum, I'd just like to offer the thoughts of a "serial entrepreneur":

    Take a look at your pants. Right now. And your shirt. And your underwear.

    (I hope you're not on a connection at Starbucks right now... Pull your pants back up).

    Now tell me you don't have a number of virtually identical items in your dresser/closet made by a number of different manufacturers. (If you're wearing a peacock vest and brown-sugar and silk shorts, congratulations... you get a free pass).

    How about the blanket on your bed? Or your pillows? Or your sheets?

    Has anyone looked at sleeping bags recently? Carabiners? Ropes? Socks? Shoes? They all bear a striking resemblance to each other, right?

    Are you outraged? I'm guessing no.

    So here's the bottom line: In my opinion (and it is an opinion for sure) monopolies are how you stagnate growth and development. It's the short-cut to eliminating innovation and refinement. Staking out territory in this way doesn't help anyone except the person doing the staking, and it does a disservice to the community and the art.

    "Variations" can be extremely subtle, whether it's in materials, shapes, or even pricing... I highly recommend you welcome competition, as it tends to INCREASE business for everyone.

    It's well accepted among marketers and business people in general that Coke NEEDS Pepsi, Mc Donalds NEEDS Burger King, Microsoft NEEDS Apple, and Nike NEEDS Reebok. Competition is good for business. It creates more excitement, forces vendors to innovate to remain competitive, and causes skittles to rain from the sky.

    This is a relatively "new" industry, and many of your 'cottage shops' are pioneers. Support them, and support competition as well as innovation. And as great-grandpa would say, "gosh durned it, its what this country was built on!"

    That's my two cents.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Lonely Raven's Avatar
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    Wow, I came looking for jdempsey information due to one of his custom made quilts being put up in the For Sale section, and it looks like you guys beat him into not posting in his own thread...

  9. #29
    first without patent, you may as well cry to the devil for more ice.

    I've not been here forever but I've seen members here start a business from their and others ideas, can you say whoopie slings? every mother and 'er brother sells em now. why is that u think? they all doing them differently ? I think not lol

    lastly I can't see what the big deal is in the least, sounds like whats good for the goose is not at all good for the gander?

    I have seen knock offs and clones and versions of many different outdoor items, posted on this forum.

    maybe some folks are not going to make as much profit margin on their "cottage" items being sold. My opinion is many hiking/hammocking/camping items are WAY over priced to begin with. who wouldn't want to be able to triple their output of funds? look at cottage makers of hammocks. how did they price their items? seems they took hennessy price and undercut them by 20 to 40 dollars. Quilts be they top or bottom seemed to follow the same formula as they cost in a big way. makes big profits. as evidenced by the numbers popping up selling their stuff.

    there is maker listed here that clearly has copied, or cloned as it were another makers hammock, sells them through a website and all that "its a business" stuff. Yet I have never once, even through development heard ANY ridicule of it as to the similarity to the prior product.

    so is the self made rule copy a bigger makers items just not a small businesses items? seems double standard to me. whoopie

    back to first, seems obvious without patents you may as well cry to the devil for more ice.

    just a bit of devil's advocate.

    whats next? hey man you can't sell your underquilts with pink thread and a 13 x 13 footbox, thats how Buckwheats Hot Rolls does his.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Bunk's Avatar
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    Those quilts look awesome, props to you for trying to make a business out of it! Considering wait times for most of the companies on here I think the more companies out there offering quality handmade products the better!

    Good for you!!!

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