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  1. #51
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    Have used this for years, only on outside of clothing, tents and hammocks so far I have noticed no ill effects I have noticed no ill effects I have noticed no ill effects. Seriously all this is poison so there has to be a risk! But when my time is up it is up!! I will weigh the risks and make my own decisions. Having had 2 bouts with Lime disease I will continue to use it.

  2. #52
    Member Kirkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg View Post
    I can't find anything about Sawyer Permethrin being encapsulated. They say that it naturally forms a very strong bond with fabric which accounts for it holding up through multiple washings.
    Encapsulation is what makes it bond and hold up.
    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.

  3. #53
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knotty View Post
    Dang. Just when you think you've got a good thing, additional info comes along and spoils it.

    Are you sure about the micro encapsulated thing? Would like to learn more about that. My experience has been that the outdoor store products don't actually last any longer than an application from Tractor Supply.
    Same here. The Non-Sawyers I have used seems to last just as long as far as I can tell.

    The stuff I have used has recommendations/directions for spraying directly on livestock and pets, as well as their bedding. Seem like if my dog( but NOT my cats) can survive a direct application of wet Permethrin, seems like I might be OK with occasional contact with clothing and dry Permethrin. But I guess there are no guarantees.

    But, when I can find a sale I prefer the Sawyers. There is no problem with the other stuff smelling. I dilute some that is for indoor use. But, I think it has a higher amount of Petro distillates. It has left some greasy spots on some gear. And, I suppose the Petro is something to wonder about itself.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  4. #54
    Member Kirkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Same here. The Non-Sawyers I have used seems to last just as long as far as I can tell.

    The stuff I have used has recommendations/directions for spraying directly on livestock and pets, as well as their bedding. Seem like if my dog( but NOT my cats) can survive a direct application of wet Permethrin, seems like I might be OK with occasional contact with clothing and dry Permethrin. But I guess there are no guarantees.

    But, when I can find a sale I prefer the Sawyers. There is no problem with the other stuff smelling. I dilute some that is for indoor use. But, I think it has a higher amount of Petro distillates. It has left some greasy spots on some gear. And, I suppose the Petro is something to wonder about itself.
    The EPA makes chemical company's spend Millions on product reregistration to make sure some thing is safe to use for humans(like Sawyers). They do not for pets and farm animals. No mater what you may think they are not formulated the same even if it is the same chemical. If you want to try a pesticide that is not approved for the method it is intended for it's you health! Go for it. The symptoms for pesticide poisoning can very from feeling hung over like from a good drunk to no symptoms at all until the big C jumps up and gets you. I work with this stuff every day and I do not take any of it lightly. My uncle Art used to work with us and though the mild stuff like this was not a threat to his health. He is no longer with us because of that!.....Guys stay safe!!!!
    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkman View Post
    Without reading MSDS sheet I cant be 100% sure it is micro encapsulated. That is the way the industry makes pesticides last for a very long time so I am 99.98% sure.
    I would be interested in reading more on Sawyer's "micro encapsulation" process as my research has failed to make mention of this process. The only mention I read discussed using fabric softener on clothing prior to permethrin treatments to enhance the bonding of permethrin to the fabric. Otherwise I have only read of direct application of permethrin to clothing, bug nets etc.

  6. #56
    Member Kirkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejeans View Post
    I would be interested in reading more on Sawyer's "micro encapsulation" process as my research has failed to make mention of this process. The only mention I read discussed using fabric softener on clothing prior to permethrin treatments to enhance the bonding of permethrin to the fabric. Otherwise I have only read of direct application of permethrin to clothing, bug nets etc.
    Like I said I can not be sure it is Micro encapsulated and from what I can find on the can it's self there is no mention of it being encapsulated. That is just my 2 cents after 26 years in this business. That's not what worries me. It's using the Tractor supply stuff in a manor that it is not intended for. Just looking out for you all.
    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.

  7. #57
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    I bought some Permethrin a couple of months ago and now I am starting to get concerned about using it on my weekend trips.

  8. #58
    Senior Member pizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubbockhammockguy View Post
    I bought some Permethrin a couple of months ago and now I am starting to get concerned about using it on my weekend trips.
    Which stuff did you buy...Sawyers or Tractor Supply? You shouldn't need to worry about the Sawyer's stuff. It's made specifically for treating clothing. I've been using the Sawyers for the past couple years and since I started using it I haven't found a single tick or been bitten by mosquitoes through my clothing. You still need to use DEET or an equivalent for use on skin since Permethrin is not meant for using on skin.

  9. #59
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkman View Post
    Like I said I can not be sure it is Micro encapsulated and from what I can find on the can it's self there is no mention of it being encapsulated. That is just my 2 cents after 26 years in this business. That's not what worries me. It's using the Tractor supply stuff in a manor that it is not intended for. Just looking out for you all.
    Your cautions- coming from a pro- are appreciated by me. I have pretty much switched back to Sawyers primarily because- like I said - I found some minor "spots" on some of the gear, which I attributed to to a difference in the petroleum distillates. The other reason is I have been able to get pretty close on prices by finding sales on the Sawyers. However, if I develop the least distrust ( and I might, and maybe already have ) of the non-Sawyers brands, I won't care a bit about the price difference.

    What are your opinions of Permethrin that is labeled for indoor use, but not for clothing? With directions for spraying carpets and such? People's babies crawl around on carpet. Of course the directions are: stay off until dry. But it is hard to see how occasional wear of treated clothing could be much more dangerous than the chemical being present inside your house where you are living 365 days a week. Any thoughts on that?

    Also, what is in - or not in- something like Sawyers that makes it safer? All Shouldn't it be on the label? All I can see on any of them the Permethrin and Petroleum distillates.

    Sorry to hear about your uncle. You apparently feel it was being around Permethrin that killed him? I spray my yard and patio with various types of Permethrin ( but not Sawyers). I am very cautious to not let the wind blow that stuff on me, or otherwise get it on me for any reason. I wear rubber gloves also. But still, this stuff is wet. Wet Permethrin will kill a cat quickly, but I have read many reports of cats laying on dry Perm. treated clothing/gear with no ill effects. And re: dogs- the wet stuff is put right on them. This just seems like it would be way more toxic than allowing it to completely dry on clothing and then that clothing contacting your skin. But maybe not.

    Are there not toxicity reports available some where on plain old Permethrin? Which show the likelihood of it causing cancer etc? If so, those results - whatever they are - should apply to ANY Permethrin, Sawyers or otherwise. UNLESS a manufacturer is adding some other substance besides the Permethrin which would in itself poison you. And I agree that is a possibility unless the label says "spray your clothing". Or at least: "use indoors". Though it does seem unlikely if it says "soak your dog" that they would be adding poisons besides Permethrin that would harm your pets.

    Still, until I feel more reassured by some body, I am taking note of your cautions. Besides, I am loaded with Sawyers for now!

    PS: the non-Sawyers I have been using seems to be long lasting, though I have not done scientific testing to compare with Sawyers. But it still seemed effective after weeks and several washings. That makes me think it in binding to the clothing. And staying on the clothing as opposed to being absorbed into my body. But, that is all just guessing!
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  10. #60
    Member Kirkman's Avatar
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    BillyBob58.....Once it is dry it is safer. It is one of the safest chemicals out there. But just like any pesticide constant exposure could be dangerous. If you where to spray it in your house all the time you might have a problem but occasional use and using your head. Like don't let your baby crawl around on a freshly treated surface unclothed even if it is dry.

    What makes stuff like Sawyers safer....It goes through millions of dollars of testing for approval to be used as a treatment for clothing. The thing that can make others not safe is some times the inactive ingredients.(the petroleum distillates can differ) For instance back in the early 80s there was a dog flea collar that the inactive ingredients was what was killing the dogs.

    With my uncle the DR.s think all the aerosols (Permethrin included) he inhaled do to not using his respirator all the time is what got him.

    And you are right if it does indeed bond to you clothes and not wash out like they say. it's sounds like safe stuff to me.
    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.

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