over compressing down

[slowhike]

at the last SEHHA camp out, i listened as ed speer & dave womble explained the dangers of over compressing down insulated products.
i had herd most of what they were saying but the way they described it in full confidence & unison, caused me to realize that i may not have always taken that advice as serious as i should.

most people have herd the sellers of down products & compression sacks talk about how small you can make a quilt or something.... size of a grape fruit... size of a base ball!!!

but this can damage & even destroy down insulation. i think the same basic guide lines can be applied to synthetic insulation too.

they talked about a certain person some years ago that loved to tell (& show) every one how small he could make his down sleeping bag as he did his thru hike. seems like the same person was also doing clinics on backpacking, giving the same advice.

some months later (maybe the next year), he began to warn people about over compressing.

it seems he had turned his 20°f bag into a 40°f bag & nearly froze until he got a replacement!!!

so how about it guys & gals... at what point do you think "this is getting to tight" as you stuff that high quality quilt, under quilt, etc, into a stuff sack?

there's also storage to think about. basic thoughts that come to mind are...
a really large, breathable bag (like often comes w/ it) is great
i'm told that hanging in a closet (if you have the room) is better.
in the stuff sack...NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!!

more thoughts?

[angrysparrow]

Great topic. I've wondered about that myself a few times.

I am very vigilant about unpacking my down gear as soon as I get home from a trip and I store it all uncompressed. But I must admit that I have compressed it quite tightly in my pack. It doesn't stay that way for more than 24 hours, and usually only that long because I usually load my pack the day before leaving on a hike.

I would like to hear any further opinions, especially from manufacturers, about determining 'how tight is too tight', and if 'really tight' is okay for short periods.

Thanks for bringing this up.

[FanaticFringer]

I used to put my Nest/No Sniveller in the JRB stuff sacks and then compress and tighten the straps as hard as I could. Now I just pull the strap enough to close the top of the sack. I store mine in a closet hanging by a rope with biner.

[mixinmaster]

at the last SEHHA camp out, i listened as ed speer & dave womble explained the dangers of over compressing down insulated products.

I listened as Ed spoke of the same danger. As soon as I relax my fears over getting down wet, I re-introduce the fears of compression. Although I always knew to NEVER fully compress one and NEVER leave it even moderately compressed for any length of time, it awaken me to a new fear. The fragile side of down and the cost has steered me away from an UQ made from it again. I just purchased a HH SS and tonight a Potomac clone synthetic. Although I carried a REI Down bag from GA to VA this year with no problem, I still have serious hesitations with the down UQ on a long distance hike. I am still torn between the two.

[slowhike]

I listened as Ed spoke of the same danger. As soon as I relax my fears over getting down wet, I re-introduce the fears of compression. Although I always knew to NEVER fully compress one and NEVER leave it even moderately compressed for any length of time, it awaken me to a new fear. The fragile side of down and the cost has steered me away from an UQ made from it again. I just purchased a HH SS and tonight a Potomac clone synthetic. Although I carried a REI Down bag from GA to VA this year with no problem, I still have serious hesitations with the down UQ on a long distance hike. I am still torn between the two.

i'd guess that your fears are more than they need be my friend.
by allowing extra room in your pack to store the down w/out over compressing it, you would do fine.
you don't want to over compress synthetic either. matter a fact, i suspect that properly compressed down is still going to need less space that properly compressed synthetic of the same R value.

[mixinmaster]

i'd guess that your fears are more than they need be my friend.
by allowing extra room in your pack to store the down w/out over compressing it, you would do fine.
you don't want to over compress synthetic either. matter a fact, i suspect that properly compressed down is still going to need less space that properly compressed synthetic of the same R value.

Yeah, I guess so. But the nature of down still seems more.............. fragile.............. I guess it is just hard to break the old school brainwashing of the delicate down versus the heavy but tough synthetic. Of course it doesn't help that the debate lives on as strong as ever. Even the difference in wetness factor is being debated recently. And with all due respect to the many highly regarded opinions expressed here on hammock forums, there doesn't seem to be any definitive proof either way really. I just personally hope that in the not to distant future a clear cut synthetic material is put into production that is..........lightweight, highly compressible, long lasting, better R value than down, and .................. CHEAP

[slowhike]

I just personally hope that in the not to distant future a clear cut synthetic material is put into production that is..........lightweight, highly compressible, long lasting, better R value than down, and .................. CHEAP

that sure would be nice.

[NCPatrick]

I just personally hope that in the not to distant future a clear cut synthetic material is put into production that is..........lightweight, highly compressible, long lasting, better R value than down, and .................. CHEAP

Amen, brother!

[Rapt]

I suspect that the risks are much less than with ANY other insulation material.

Here is a technical paper on the topic that seems to indicate that DOWN is better and more resilient than other insulations, and gives the reasons why. Down itself is tough, its the wrappers we put it in to take advantage of the light weight that isn't.

All I know is apart from storing my bag completely uncompressed, I don't worry too much about it. Keeping the down clean is far more important that not compressing it while in use, as dirt and oils contribute to breakdown and loss of loft. Cleaning properly restores loft.

I guess the risk if you spent 100 continuous days hiking and the bag was compressed all day every day in your pack that would possibly present a risk.

I have always used down bags. I grew up with one, it worked regularly for 20 years before it was retired. My current bag is more than 10 years old and still going strong. Its this bag and I get it down to about 8" in diameter and about 8" long. I haven't noticed significant loss of loft in that time. Certainly its still keeps me warm, and about 5 years into its working life I used it with a light overbag down to -31F.

If you look at the industry, most insulation manufacturers don't even attempt to claim that synthetics come close to the compressibility, recovery, or functional life of down. Although some claim near equivalent warmth for weight.

There is no question in my mind that regardless down is still superior to synthetics in all but speed of drying... No matter what anyone says a soaking wet bag won't keep you warm regardless of what's inside.

[NCPatrick]

...most insulation manufacturers don't even attempt to claim that synthetics come close to the compressibility, recovery, or functional life of down.

Agreed, although I bet there will be such a synthetic isulation soon enough though (i.e. within my lifetime).