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  1. #21
    jons4real's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deer man View Post
    Be careful when using Carabiners, if you simply clip into a webbing eye and around the tree and back onto the webbing you are cross loading the spine on the crab. They are not designed to be loaded this way only directly down the spine.

    Hope this makes sense?
    I have to be honest..... I have no idea what you mean.
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  2. #22
    PapaSmurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jons4real View Post
    I have to be honest..... I have no idea what you mean.
    Here's a photo that might help explain.


    The above photo was used from this source.
    http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/...-on-trees.html

  3. #23
    Senior Member mtncmpr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jons4real View Post
    I have to be honest..... I have no idea what you mean.
    .

    I was wondering myself.

    .

    Quote Originally Posted by PapaSmurf View Post
    Here's a photo that might help explain.


    The above photo was used from this source.
    http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/...-on-trees.html
    .

    Thanks for the pic!

    .
    ...And then one day you find, ten years have got behind you.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member trekkingnut's Avatar
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    surely the minor axis on a climbing grade carabiner has a breaking strain of 9kn.... thats far more pressure than would be exerted through this use?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekkingnut View Post
    surely the minor axis on a climbing grade carabiner has a breaking strain of 9kn.... thats far more pressure than would be exerted through this use?
    Correct depending on the make of crab but in the correct position it has at least 22KN. Why risk your life for the sake of a couple of minutes to get correct positioning? Ideally I would only use 3 or 4 way crabs, I know rock climbers use spring gates and lots of other things but they do it for fun and I use mine to save my life!

  6. #26
    Senior Member trekkingnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deer man View Post
    Correct depending on the make of crab but in the correct position it has at least 22KN. Why risk your life for the sake of a couple of minutes to get correct positioning? Ideally I would only use 3 or 4 way crabs, I know rock climbers use spring gates and lots of other things but they do it for fun and I use mine to save my life!
    haha risk your life? 4 feet off the ground? im an expedition manager and use carabiners all the time for a variety of things, i would be absolutly gobsmacked if one of them broke on the minor axis!

    i would worry if you were bending the carabiner round the tree as that would severely weaken it over time..... some people do that by threading the webbing through itself... that i dont like... if thats what you are saying then i agree!

    and im pretty sure that despite doing it for fun, us climbers use them specifically to save our lives... otherwise we'd free climb with no protection!!!

    did you get in touch with the other essex boys yet? it def sounds like you could get an essex meet going, theres at least four of you! do you have a crb?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekkingnut View Post
    i would worry if you were bending the carabiner round the tree as that would severely weaken it over time..... some people do that by threading the webbing through itself... that i dont like... if thats what you are saying then i agree!
    This was what I was trying to explain, the picture shows a sling with a crab which would then have the suspension rope and would be fine.

    4 foot is Ok but you could still damage your back, I am referring to when you are in the canopy at 30 foot!

  8. #28
    Senior Member trekkingnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deer man View Post
    This was what I was trying to explain, the picture shows a sling with a crab which would then have the suspension rope and would be fine.

    4 foot is Ok but you could still damage your back, I am referring to when you are in the canopy at 30 foot!
    ahhhh see i thought your pic was a how not to do it photo.... clarification needed!!!

    ive never tried to get into my hennessy at 30ft.... id be worried about falling out the bottom!!! i usually clip into my harness and sleep in my bivi on mountain races... but not in the hammock...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekkingnut View Post
    ahhhh see i thought your pic was a how not to do it photo.... clarification needed!!!

    ive never tried to get into my hennessy at 30ft.... id be worried about falling out the bottom!!! i usually clip into my harness and sleep in my bivi on mountain races... but not in the hammock...
    To be honest the hennesy is not the best for sleeping in the canopy, unless you do a mod and put a whole in the net for the life line to go through you have way to much slack in the system!

    A portaledge would be better suited or even a tree boat http://www.newtribe.com/catalog/prod...264cb41448b88b
    or http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/portaledges.html

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by deer man View Post
    Be careful when using Carabiners, if you simply clip into a webbing eye and around the tree and back onto the webbing you are cross loading the spine on the crab. They are not designed to be loaded this way only directly down the spine.

    Hope this makes sense?
    I don't think most of us understand the phrase "cross loading the spine on the crab". By 'cross loading' in this case, I assume you mean something like 'bending in on/around the tree'. 'Spine' seems pretty easy-- along the length of the carabiner. 'Crab', that one I would guess would just exclude the gate on the carabiner, or saying it another way, would just be the cast or forged piece of the carabiner?

    But I get the gest of what you are saying and have the same concerns myself, especially when folks start using lighter and lighter weight carabiners, or carabiner replacements. One of the carabiner replacements looks basically like a machined aluminum, gate-less carabiner. Regardless, it seems that the more times you cross load, or bend, these carabiners the more you weaken them as most everyone is familar with the concept of metal fatigue and has probably intentionally broken some wire or flat piece of metal be repeatably bending it back and forth. Do climbers replace carabiners after so many uses like they do climbing rope?
    Youngblood AT2000

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