supershelter system

**G.L.P.** · 09-11-2010, 23:43

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

" i had the condensation problems and i wasn't even using a space blanket...just the stock setup"

Are you saying that you didn't use the SB with the SS?

Did you have the condensation also while using the SB? In my experience, you are almost guaranteed to have condensation if you don't use the SB, as well as being not near as warm.

Though I have occasionally used the SS without the SB at warmer temps, for me the SB is really part of the system. The one time I have had condensation was without the SB. That time, the foot end of the pad was soaked, and the foot of my bag was pretty wet.

with a SB it was worse....i would wake up to a puddle under me..
there isn't much else to say other then the SS did not work at all for me..
not once was i warm with it ...and only ended up with a cold wet butt

and i know it was set up the right way...i dunno..it just wasn't for me i guess

KP · 09-12-2010, 08:28

As everyone pretty much already said, it's not for everyone. That said, when I had a HHULBA it worked great for me. IMO the original OCF pad that comes with it isn't any bulkier to pack than a air mat like the Big Agnes or Thermarest once you get it back in it's sack. Only 8 or 9 oz I believe compared to 23-26 oz for the air mats. Most folks have a really big issue with getting it back in the stuff sack but I never had a problem with it once I figured out how to do it. Now, once I started using the MAC IX Insultex I never had a reason to use the HH pad again. So, another plug for the IX.

This is how much faith that I have in the HHSS used with IX. The guy that bought the HHULBA from me didn't want to buy the SS so for now I'm keeping it JUST IN CASE I ever get another HH. Yes I now have a WBBB and truly enjoy it but to this day I still wonder if I did the right thing by selling my Backpacker.

**BillyBob58** · 09-21-2010, 22:59

Originally Posted by greenlespaul

with a SB it was worse....i would wake up to a puddle under me..
there isn't much else to say other then the SS did not work at all for me..
not once was i warm with it ...and only ended up with a cold wet butt

and i know it was set up the right way...i dunno..it just wasn't for me i guess

GLP, I agree, there is nothing else to say: it just wasn't for you. It wouldn't be for me if I had had your experience. And you are not alone, at least s few others have had some or all of the problems you had, despite apparently following every tip any one could give them.

The mystery is why there is such dramatic variation among people. For example, my experiences were, at least within claimed temp ranges, warm and dry. Always very dry as far as I can tell. I'm sure if I had weighed the fleece I slept in, or the Polar Guard sleeping bags I was sometimes inside of, I might have been able to pick some extra weight from condensation. But, there was no wetness or dampness that I could perceive. Though I have occasionally, the next morning, found a few drops on the SB, but it didn't get me wet.

But you know, I have also slept on a CCF pad ( in an SPE) one time all night long at ~20F, and perceived no condensation. And several other times I have slipped a torso length CCF pad into the pad pocket of a JRB Bridge. Plus CCF leg pads many times. All with no noticeable condensation. Even though I am ordinarily quick to sweat profusely. Many folks can not use pads in hammocks due to condensation.

There have even been a very few people ( are you one of them?) who have not only had condensation inside the hammock, but also managed to get condensation down inside the Under cover when using the SB. I have never been quite able to figure out how that can even happen. Since the SB should function as a vapor barrier. And there should be no body moisture available to condense down in the UC. Go figure.

I'm sure there is an explanation, but I don't know what it is.

Any way, the system has worked from fairly well to superbly for a number of us. For others it has not. So, I don't think there is any way you can have a clue as to if it will work for any given person except to try it.

**Youngblood** · 09-22-2010, 08:22

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

...
There have even been a very few people ( are you one of them?) who have not only had condensation inside the hammock, but also managed to get condensation down inside the Under cover when using the SB. I have never been quite able to figure out how that can even happen. Since the SB should function as a vapor barrier. And there should be no body moisture available to condense down in the UC. Go figure.

I'm sure there is an explanation, but I don't know what it is.

...

BillyBob... I have one possible explanation for that. When the insulation was put in place it trapped air at some temperature and humidity between the vapor barriers. During the evening the temperature of that trapped air dropped below its dew point, causing condensation or the formation of water in the liquid state from water in a vapor state. I experienced that one evening when I used a silnylon vapor barrier between my underquilt and hammock, and a piece of plastic covering the outside of my underquilt. I had frozen water on the inside surface of the outer piece of plastic... I scratched my head on that for a while before I figured out it was likely trapped air, dew point, and falling temperatures.

Before you discount that, consider that is how we end up with water inside mustard jars and such when they are only partially full and stored in a cold refrigerator. That is also why they have (or use to have?) gasoline additive products like HEET. HEET (alcohol) is used to absorb and burn any water that collects in your gas tank. One way that water collects in gas tanks is when people don't fill their tanks up, trap air at some dew point in the fuel tank system, and then it condenses when the temperature drops enough for that trapped air to reach its dew point.

**BillyBob58** · 09-22-2010, 12:14

Originally Posted by Youngblood

BillyBob... I have one possible explanation for that. When the insulation was put in place it trapped air at some temperature and humidity between the vapor barriers. During the evening the temperature of that trapped air dropped below its dew point, causing condensation or the formation of water in the liquid state from water in a vapor state. I experienced that one evening when I used a silnylon vapor barrier between my underquilt and hammock, and a piece of plastic covering the outside of my underquilt. I had frozen water on the inside surface of the outer piece of plastic... I scratched my head on that for a while before I figured out it was likely trapped air, dew point, and falling temperatures.

Before you discount that, consider that is how we end up with water inside mustard jars and such when they are only partially full and stored in a cold refrigerator. That is also why they have (or use to have?) gasoline additive products like HEET. HEET (alcohol) is used to absorb and burn any water that collects in your gas tank. One way that water collects in gas tanks is when people don't fill their tanks up, trap air at some dew point in the fuel tank system, and then it condenses when the temperature drops enough for that trapped air to reach its dew point.

Hmmmmmmm.............. Very interesting. Maybe so. Sounds reasonable.

Still leaves me wondering why some folks have had consistent problems with that while some of us have never yet had any significant occurence of such an event. I suppose it could just be luck of the draw of whatever humidity level is getting trapped and then exposed to whatever just right temp drop? I have even more than once had down clothing placed down into the UC, always dry and fluffy next morning.

Also leaves me wondering if there is anything that could be done about it? Other than just abandoning the system for a breathable one?

And at the same time I am remembering KWPapke's minus 27 SS party with Shug. I think he stayed warm AND dry. I believe he also had a thin light flexible pad which lined the bottom of his UC, then maybe a down parka or light down bag, then HH pad and space blanket on top. More or less. Wonder if that pad helped prevent reaching dew point temps? I suspect the air was pretty dry. Still, you would think minus 27 would really challenge things condensation wise. And every other wise.

**kycamper** · 10-06-2010, 20:25

Would the different experiences have anything to do with the user's body mass and weight? A 250-300 pound person would generate a LOT more heat and thus condensation then a 150 pound person in the same hammock.

Many said that the Eureka Chrysalis had a lot of condensation. I bought one and did not have any. . .even with the sides down.

I have a HH Explorer Deluxe now and ordered the SS and the over cover. Will see what happens with that.

**BillyBob58** · 10-06-2010, 20:36

Originally Posted by kycamper

Would the different experiences have anything to do with the user's body mass and weight? A 250-300 pound person would generate a LOT more heat and thus condensation then a 150 pound person in the same hammock.

Many said that the Eureka Chrysalis had a lot of condensation. I bought one and did not have any. . .even with the sides down.

I have a HH Explorer Deluxe now and ordered the SS and the over cover. Will see what happens with that.

I look forward to hearing about your results, and good luck to you. I still like mine, though my pad is quite beat up by now!

**Silverlion** · 10-06-2010, 23:44

Last weekend, I tried out a new sleeping bag. I have used bags as blankets all the time while using the SS. This time, I slept in the bag and got condensation. (SB and all) So the other night, temp and humidity about the same, I tried it again but using the bag as a blanket....no condensation! Figured I'd throw my 2 cents out there.

**fred1diver** · 10-07-2010, 04:34

I might be wrong but I think the condensation problem simply depends on wether you are a cold or warm sleeper ( I'm a warm sleeper and I almost always wake up damp, even at home)
on the other hand I might be totally wrong!

**Ted** · 10-13-2010, 13:19

To add to the condensation discussion on the SS, may I offer an analogy to thermal construction in buildings. If the HH undercover was not waterproof silnylon, but rather a porous material such as the hammock fabric itself, any trapped water vapor between the undercover and space blanket would normally vent to the exterior rather than condense into free water in the contained space between the two. In building design, vapor barrier theory pretty much excludes the use of two barriers for this reason. I wonder if Hennessy has considered offering a undercover fabric option?