Condensation question

[Youngblood]

That's it for condensation problems for me. Don't really know why one night and not others.

BillyBob... sometimes it is not so much a factor of what you do or don't do. In high humidity conditions you will have condensation issues no matter what you do because you generate some amount of moisture and it can not evaporate into the air in high humidity conditions because the air is already holding all the moisture it possibly can; heck the air is probably depositing additional moisture on your stuff. In dry and windy conditions you likely will not have condensation issues no matter what you do because the air will soak it up and the wind will continually be moving more dry air past you. In between those extreme conditions, what you do matters.

All of us that have been outdoors a bit in the mountains of the southeast have seen fog layers. I have seen fog on nearby mountain peaks while I was in relatively dry air at a gap. I have been on mountain peaks in relatively dry air and saw fog banks in the gaps or valleys below me. Even temperatures are not always lower at higher elevations. I have been on peaks in calm conditions where the low was in the 50s and a town in a nearby valley had frost. Of course usually that is the other way around, especially if there is air movement.

The point is that conditions change and if you aren't careful when you are experimenting and trying different things or reviewing what happened at different times, you can fool yourself on what is going on in terms of what is causing what. Condensation issues have some complexity to them.

[Redwood Guy]

Well, we could always have one of our cottage hammock makers build us a double-wall hammock

[G.L.P.]

greenlespaul, why not keep the bugnet up and let it take most of the dew instead of the sleeping bag/quilt? I agree a tarp will help.

even with the bugnet up i get it on my quilt......i toss and turn alot in my sleep

i also walk and talk in my sleep too...but we won't get into that

[Globetruck]

Last night, the temp and dew point were within a few degrees, but not quite close enough to create a lot of dew. Wind was absolutely dead calm. I wore shorts and a cotton t shirt and used a 5* C synthetic bag (about 41* F). It's my standard summer bag. I left it completely unzipped and used it as a quilt. Initially, I slept without any pad or insulation beneath me. After a few hours, I got slightly chilly so I added my 1/4 inch gossamer gear (evazote) pad. Other than rolling over a few times, I slept just fine. I never felt sweaty or clammy at all. My back / bottom wasn't even the slightest bit damp from perspiration. The bottom of the hammock was 100% dry, as was the pad. The bug net and top were literally dripping with condensation - and it wasn't just the area around my mouth, but the entire thing from head to foot. At about 5:30 am, some neighborhood dogs got into a fight so I woke up, expecting to see the grass and outside of the hammock to be covered in dew. Everything except the hammock was dry.

My best guess: it was just the right (or wrong!) combination of temp, wind, and dew point. I'm curious if it was respiration related?

I think the "fix" might be as simple as keeping the zipper open at night.

[HikerRanky]

BillyBob, I was hanging out behind my house... My neighbor has 300 acres and lets me hang out in it when I want to except during deer season.

Globetruck, I think you've hit the nail on the head with the no wind whatsoever statement. How was your tarp rigged? Close to the hammock or opened up?

Randy

[Globetruck]

BillyBob, I was hanging out behind my house... My neighbor has 300 acres and lets me hang out in it when I want to except during deer season.

Globetruck, I think you've hit the nail on the head with the no wind whatsoever statement. How was your tarp rigged? Close to the hammock or opened up?

Randy

No tarp at all... that's another reason I was a bit surprised by the condensation. I think I witnessed "The Perfect Dew Storm."

[Youngblood]

Last night, the temp and dew point were within a few degrees, but not quite close enough to create a lot of dew. Wind was absolutely dead calm. I wore shorts and a cotton t shirt and used a 5* C synthetic bag (about 41* F). It's my standard summer bag. I left it completely unzipped and used it as a quilt. Initially, I slept without any pad or insulation beneath me. After a few hours, I got slightly chilly so I added my 1/4 inch gossamer gear (evazote) pad. Other than rolling over a few times, I slept just fine. I never felt sweaty or clammy at all. My back / bottom wasn't even the slightest bit damp from perspiration. The bottom of the hammock was 100% dry, as was the pad. The bug net and top were literally dripping with condensation - and it wasn't just the area around my mouth, but the entire thing from head to foot. At about 5:30 am, some neighborhood dogs got into a fight so I woke up, expecting to see the grass and outside of the hammock to be covered in dew. Everything except the hammock was dry.

My best guess: it was just the right (or wrong!) combination of temp, wind, and dew point. I'm curious if it was respiration related?

I think the "fix" might be as simple as keeping the zipper open at night.

I'm surprised you didn't have some dampness where you were sleeping on the pad that night. To me it sounds like your bugnet was creating a high humidity environment by holding in or delaying the passing of moisture. The bugnet acts like a barrier to some extent and it was a race as to whether it passed moist air through fast enough relative to how fast and how much you were generating. You do give off moisture when you exhale, a lot.

What I am going to say here is inappropriate to do at the temperatures you were in but are schemes for cold weather. This may shed some light on what is going on. Condensation is a much bigger issue in cold weather and that is made worse because cold air can't hold as much moisture as warmer air.

In cold conditions we often breath through some type of breathable material like a fleece neck gaitor, bandana, etc. There are several reasons for that: warm up and moisten the air we breathe in to help prevent sore throats AND to reduce the amount of moisture we exhale into the surrounding air.

We also sometimes sleep in some type of vapor barrier. There are several reasons for that also: keeps any moisture from perspiration (hopefully just insensible perspiration but it could be sensible perspiration, or sweat) from condensating inside our insulation or in our immediate surroundings AND also makes us more efficient at generating body heat.

[BillyBob58]

... I have been on peaks in calm conditions where the low was in the 50s and a town in a nearby valley had frost. Of course usually that is the other way around, especially if there is air movement.

The point is that conditions change and if you aren't careful when you are experimenting and trying different things or reviewing what happened at different times, you can fool yourself on what is going on in terms of what is causing what. Condensation issues have some complexity to them.

Yep. There are so many variables, ( mostly unknown to us during camp) maybe even including individuals, that I don't really think we can make an accurate forecast about what is going to happen condensation wise. But maybe we can make a guess that if we let ourselves get to toasty, we will contribute more moisture to the air around us. One night in Flagstaff, the forcast lows were so severe I could not help but wonder how bad it would be at the SKI resort 2000 feet higher. It was MINUS 23 at the house, elevation ~7000. At the 9500 foot high Ski resort? Minus 16F! Any one moving DOWN the mountain to try and catch some warmer temps would have been in for a shock on that night.

... The bottom of the hammock was 100% dry, as was the pad. The bug net and top were literally dripping with condensation - and it wasn't just the area around my mouth, but the entire thing from head to foot. At about 5:30 am, some neighborhood dogs got into a fight so I woke up, expecting to see the grass and outside of the hammock to be covered in dew. Everything except the hammock was dry.

My best guess: it was just the right (or wrong!) combination of temp, wind, and dew point. I'm curious if it was respiration related?

I think the "fix" might be as simple as keeping the zipper open at night.

BillyBob, I was hanging out behind my house... My neighbor has 300 acres and lets me hang out in it when I want to except during deer season.

Globetruck, I think you've hit the nail on the head with the no wind whatsoever statement. How was your tarp rigged? Close to the hammock or opened up?

Randy

No tarp at all... that's another reason I was a bit surprised by the condensation. I think I witnessed "The Perfect Dew Storm."

Oh sweet mysteries of life! HR, I see that Whitehouse, TN is across TN to the North from where I was camping. So maybe you were a degree or 3 colder. GT, don't know where you are in AL, north or south? But with the perfect weather across most of the south this weekend, I think it is likely that we all had roughly the same DRY, low/no wind conditions, with a few degrees of temp dif- close to record lows around here. Mid 40s to low 50s. And again, dry. Mostly unusually dry, low humidity. And WONDERFUL! COOL and DRY! It was GREAT!

HR and I were bone dry( with bug nets, and tarps in my case, and even a HHSS-no pad or space blanket, but an IX UQ- one night), and GT- with no tarp used- was equally dry, except for his bug net.
Even the ground was dry and dew free. But a soaked bug net. There is no figuring it out in any practical manner.

No wonder there are such varying experiences with the HHSS, with or without the space blanket? Not to mention CCF pad use. The individual person's variables plus all the weather and terrain variables. Who can figure it out? Here is profound wisdom: Sometimes you will have condensation, sometimes you won't. Still, we can do things that will USUALLY make things better or worse.

[HikerRanky]

The wind up here this past weekend was around 5 mph at a minimum. Friday night it was running about 15 mph. Saturday and Sunday nights were the 5mph nights. Last night it was about 8mph.

As BillyBob has mentioned, one other variable that also needs to be considered is the individual. I know personally as a warm sleeper, the amount of moisture being exhaled is more than my wife who is a cold sleeper. In the wintertime, I have waked up to some light condensation both on the bug netting and the BBO whereas my wife does not. She just hates to get out from underneath the quilts :-)

Randy