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  1. #31
    gargoyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppabear View Post
    Thanks for the link Tired Feet. I intend to tie up a test sample using the Zeppelin bend. You can bet I will test it 7 ways from sunday before trusting it though.
    Once burnt, twice shy...
    I'm still wondering why your focus is on the KNOT and not just splicing the rope? Its been proven, tested, used for a long time and the splice is easy to do.

    With your knot failure, I think you learned a valuable lesson, but to hear you wanting to return to a knot puzzles me

    And I have a large number of hangs on my nacrabiners and my soft shackles (extensive nightly testing with 300+ lbs of "dead weight") and feel extremely confident in the durability and design of these techniques.

    There are numerous tutorials, that acurately show how to do the splicing techniques, which tools to use, and testing data to confirm the integrity of the rope.
    We all know by now that amsteel (any high modulous rope) is treated with a lubricant, which adversely effects the ropes ability to hold a knot.

    Why the fascination with a KNOT? When there are proven ways to make continous loops, shackles, 'biners, slings, locked eyes and splices..??

    I'm not saying that the new techy ropes cannot be knotted, I'm sure they can. Just that when its my tailbone on the line (literally) why not go with a proven design?
    Ambulo tua ambulo.

  2. #32
    Senior Member optimator's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=gargoyle;322915
    Why the fascination with a KNOT? When there are proven ways to make continous loops, shackles, 'biners, slings, locked eyes and splices..??
    [/QUOTE]

    Just to play Devil's advocate here. The Warbonnet's suspension loops are tied in a double fishermans knot. Has anyone ever heard of one coming undone?
    It's only an addiction if your trying to quit

  3. #33
    Senior Member Poppabear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gargoyle View Post
    With your knot failure, I think you learned a valuable lesson, but to hear you wanting to return to a knot puzzles me
    And I have a large number of hangs on my nacrabiners and my soft shackles (extensive nightly testing with 300+ lbs of "dead weight") and feel extremely confident in the durability and design of these techniques.
    Gargoyle,
    I think we may both be singing off of the same sheet of music and not realizing it. I have alrady switched all the hammocks that I have with sewn end channels to spliced continious loops. My interest in the Zeppelin Bend is that I sometimes have occasion to use ropes (not necessarily Amsteel) as haul or lifting lines. Many times the need is at the spur of the moment and a properly spliced line may not be available. I want a knot that has proven non slip capabilities and is also easy to untie. I have used many different knots for this purpose in the past. For hammock hanging situtations and others where splicing is appropiate it will be used. But there are times when knots must be used. In light of my of my recent mishap. I am rethinking the knots that I use in all applications. I do not want any repeats. I have learned my lesson in the old school manner of hard knocks.
    I am confused on nacrabiners however. I have either missed or failed to comprehend how a nacrabiner can be made without using a knot on the tag end. I have looked at some tutoriials and I have made a few of them. But for the life of me I can not see how it would be done with out using a knot. Can you enlighten me? What specific knot do you use on your nacrabiners?
    Terry

  4. #34
    Frawg's Avatar
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    PMFJI but, FWIW, the Zeppelin bend is my go-to bend when a sheet bend isn't enough. Before evolving to spliced loops I often used the Z-bend to make Amsteel loops for my end channel hammocks. Never put the bend under heavy load, though, because I'd make a bowline on a bight out of the loop for fastening to a toggle and that bowline took most of the load. Also, I use a diamond (lanyard) knot with my nacrabiners, and also as a pseudo-toggle when hanging now.
    - Frawg

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  5. #35
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Before we switched to Whoopies, we used the Zeppelin Bend in our Bridge suspensions using 3 mm Lash-It and AS-78. The 3 mm Lash-It has the bad habit of pulling exceedingly tight under load. I've had Marlin Spike Hitches that were almost impossible to undo in it after loading and the MSH just pulls out. The same with Bowlines. I've struggled for 15 minutes to undo a bowline in 3 mm Lash-It that had been loaded in the suspension. Don't know the exact load on the Zeppelin Bends in the suspension, but they never slipped and after many nights of hanging the Zeppelin Bend was still untieable (?) although a spike was needed to loosen it up a bit. That or broken finger nails. A loaded overhand in the 3 mm Lash-It can only be cut to undo.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredFeet View Post
    Before we switched to Whoopies, we used the Zeppelin Bend in our Bridge suspensions using 3 mm Lash-It and AS-78. The 3 mm Lash-It has the bad habit of pulling exceedingly tight under load. I've had Marlin Spike Hitches that were almost impossible to undo in it after loading and the MSH just pulls out. The same with Bowlines. I've struggled for 15 minutes to undo a bowline in 3 mm Lash-It that had been loaded in the suspension. Don't know the exact load on the Zeppelin Bends in the suspension, but they never slipped and after many nights of hanging the Zeppelin Bend was still untieable (?) although a spike was needed to loosen it up a bit. That or broken finger nails. A loaded overhand in the 3 mm Lash-It can only be cut to undo.
    I like that Zepplin Bend.
    Youngblood AT2000

  7. #37
    Senior Member creativeKayt's Avatar
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    PoppaBear -- I'm so glad you are relatively okay after that! It's a great reminder, but sucks that it had to come at such a painful cost.

  8. #38
    gargoyle's Avatar
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    Poppa,
    I followed Opies tutorials on both the soft shackle and the nacra..
    Backsplicing the tail gives the rope more mass, and then tied the knot suggested in the tutorial, a blood knot, iirc. or barrel knot? there was some controversy at the time....
    Dresssed the knot firmly, and been hanging since.

    And I stand corrected, they do use a knot. My humble apologies.
    Ambulo tua ambulo.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Poppabear's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Gargoyle, No worries! The open and free exchange of information, ideas and opinions is what makes this the best forum bar none. After reading your post I went back reviewed / watched everything I could find on naccrabiners / soft shackles. I came across lots of good information that I apparently missed the first time. But I am on the right track now. I spent last evening making a few new naccrabiners using Opies instructions. I hung a DIY hammock in the yard using them, whoopies and tree straps. I then loaded the hammock down with approximately 200 lbs of sacked concrete. It has been hanging all night with no signs of troubles. So my confidence levels are high. I intend to try the hammock myself this evening. Which will erase any lingering doubts. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
    Terry

  10. #40
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    Glad you are getting better, Poppabear! Most impressed you were able to load 200 lbs of concrete into a hammock - my back started hurting just thinking about it

    Shug, how about a slow mo video on tying some of the more popular knots: thanks to your superb instruction, I now know how to tie a marlinspike hitch and use it very time I hang. I have never even heard of most of the knots mentioned in this thread.

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