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  1. #31
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greggg3 View Post
    why mosquito netting on an underquilt??
    It's part of the suspension. It is a very effective design.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  2. #32
    Senior Member greggg3's Avatar
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    ahhh...ok, i've seen the picture before just didn't realize the white was netting, thanks sparrow

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by greggg3 View Post
    why mosquito netting on an underquilt??
    That is a micro mesh spandex on the SnugFit Underquilt that is used for its elasticity. It looks like mosquito netting because of its open weave to keep it light weight (you are probably more familiar with solid spandex that is heavier and used in running tights and other tight fitting clothing). The micro mesh spandex holds the underquilt up against the bottom of the hammock along the full width of the underquilt. That technique reduces air gaps between the underquilt and hammock. It also automatically adjusts the underquilt to you when you reposition yourself or move around in your hammock or when your hammock stretches overnight.

    I put the same micro mesh spandex in a panel on the back side of the Segmented Pad Extender so it could accommodate different thicknesses of pads or combinations of pads. It is some pretty neat stuff when you need a full width or full length suspension. Spandex can make things fit like they were made specifically for you and your shape, whatever your shape is, in ways that nothing else can.
    Last edited by Youngblood; 12-19-2007 at 21:33. Reason: left out a word
    Youngblood AT2000

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lost's Avatar
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    It's netting that goes from the end of the blanket to connect to the ends of the hammock. If you look on the website, they show white net. I really like the black better, but sure wish I had waited a week and got in on the sale. I don't like black that much better!

  5. #35
    Senior Member greggg3's Avatar
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    Thanks Youngblood, thats good info - this could be useful stuff for a lot of do it yourself projects

  6. #36
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greggg3 View Post
    Thanks Youngblood, thats good info - this could be useful stuff for a lot of do it yourself projects
    What he said... Thanks Youngblood.


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    - Mark Twain
    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
    - John Burroughs

  7. #37
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Yeah, again, this PeaPod is pretty special, but at the price dif just 1 week later, I may well have opted for the SnugFit if I was making the decision again. Although, I suppose Ed might take the PeaPod back if I wanted to go that route and I would only have to eat the extra shipping. But I probably won't try to go to all that trouble and bother Ed with that. For one thing, I'm still not positive I would prefer the SF over the PPod with it's all in one bag/quilt "sealed in" approach, which is sort of what I was always attracted to more than a quilt. But I must admit that the whole "snugfit/mesh" thing is very attractive and at the sale price I would have had to re-think all of that very hard.

    But here is one thing I have not yet been able to understand: Why is the PeaPod rated at 20* and the SnugFit rated at 30* by the same manufacturer? Aren't they both rated 2.5" single layer 900 FP loft? What is the reason for the temp dif? It seems to me that with the same loft and the superior "snug" fit, if anything it would be the SnugFit with the lower temp rating.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 12-20-2007 at 08:47.

  8. #38
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    I would guess that the warm air that the PeaPod holds in over the top of you makes the difference. It'll be interesting to see the real answer.


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    - Mark Twain
    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
    - John Burroughs

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCPatrick View Post
    I would guess that the warm air that the PeaPod holds in over the top of you makes the difference. It'll be interesting to see the real answer.
    It is unfortunate that there is an inconsistency in the temperature ratings for two products with the same loft specified, I don't have a clear answer for that.

    I rated the SnugFit and I based it rated on using it with silk long johns and a sleeping bag in still air. The loft measurements are with it laying flat on a table. The SnugFit has complex differential shapes and those cause it to really puff up when you lay it out flat. You get what I call an exaggerated differential shape where the outside layer of fabric is much larger than the inside layer of fabric. You get a large range between the height at the baffle itself and the peak height in between the baffles. Maybe a slide show type presentation is in order to help explain the concept of simple differential shapes? I have identified and it some cases defined on my own several different classes of differential curves that have some unique properties-- the exact differential, the reverse differential, the exaggerated differential, and the undefined differential.

    I don't have personal experience with the PeaPod but have been around it before Ed first started using down for the insulation. Ed started out using sheets of Thinsulte Lite Loft for his original PeaPods and has progressed from down with sewn through construction to down with baffled construction. Along the way he has assigned temperature ratings to these products and I wasn't involved with that. I don't think Ed is on this forum often but he posts regularly over on the Yahoo hammock camping group if you want to ask him directly. If I had to guess it would be that the 20F rating was based on applying the 2.5" single layer loft to this equation:

    [temperature rating °F] = 70 - ([thickness inches] X 20),

    which is an approximation that I think I introduced a few years ago based on Western Mountaineerings specifications for their down sleeping bags. It is a reasonable starting point for down insulation that you are using while you sleep.

    Ed has changed the baffle height and type of down over the years and I don't know if he has field tested this latest combination all by itself or not. Temperature ratings are tricky and the following is the introductory statement I used in an article I wrote a few years ago to introduce the Segmented Pad Extender and talk about temperature ratings of various hammock insulation, it is worth repeating whenever I do the "temperature rating dance" :

    Disclaimer: This discussion should be taken as a rough guideline and only used as a starting point. Why? Because a lot of this is guesstimates based on personal experiences and your own personable metabolism is responsible in a large part for how comfortable you will be at any given temperature. Also there are many intangibles that sometimes play a part... humidity, how tired you are and the number of hours since you ate any food are just a few of these. With a disclaimer like this, one would question as to why say anything at all. That is a good point. My feeling is that most people need something to start with, a point of reference. In that regard, I hope this helps fill that void.

    Certainly if you find temperature ratings are overly optimistic you should let the manufacturer know so they can fix the product if it is wrong or change their rating to reflect how the product actually performs. It is always best to try out new cold weather insulation that you are unfamiliar with in such a way that you have a backup if it doesn't perform as well as you expect so that you don't get yourself in trouble, because you can get in trouble real fast backpacking and camping in cold weather.
    Youngblood AT2000

  10. #40
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youngblood View Post

    I rated the SnugFit and I based it rated on using it with silk long johns and a sleeping bag in still air. The loft measurements are with it laying flat on a table. The SnugFit has complex differential shapes and those cause it to really puff up when you lay it out flat. ........................Ed started out using sheets of Thinsulte Lite Loft for his original PeaPods and has progressed from down with sewn through construction to down with baffled construction. Along the way he has assigned temperature ratings to these products and I wasn't involved with that. ......................
    Certainly if you find temperature ratings are overly optimistic you should let the manufacturer know so they can fix the product if it is wrong or change their rating to reflect how the product actually performs. It is always best to try out new cold weather insulation that you are unfamiliar with in such a way that you have a backup if it doesn't perform as well as you expect so that you don't get yourself in trouble, because you can get in trouble real fast backpacking and camping in cold weather.
    Thanks, Dave. So, that is basically the explanation: two different raters with two different ideas re: the actual warmth of their individual products, even with identical loft ratings.

    It sounds right that Ed is probably using the formula you mentioned. After all, 20* is almost a classic, standard rating for a down sleeping bag with a total of 5" loft. Though you wonder if that can still work for the bottom of a hammock, and of course those things vary greatly anyway with the individual and many other variables that we all know about.

    Ed is always mentioning what a cold sleeper he is, and I'm not sure if that temp rating is for him personally or other average sleepers. But going by several users comments about trail use I have seen, it appears the 20* bottom rating is conservative( some say very conservative), at least for those users. And in my review, I have said that the top rating ( 50*) seems very conservative for me. Though I have not been able to check the bottom rating yet. I can only say I felt no bottom cold at an official 24* ( my thermometer, next to my hammock= 20*). Though it will be a concern to make sure I can maintain bottom loft without too much of an air gap. And of course, that was one night in the backyard, not field conditions which could really change the results.

    You rate the 2.5" loft SnugFit at 30* based on your personal test. I have not seen any cold weather feed back from users yet, but many commented that they felt that rating was conservative. I wonder, do you consider yourself a cold or warm sleeper?

    Anyway, thanks for the explanation. I do wonder if what NCPatrick said about the top layer has anything to do with holding heat better down in the bottom layer. That along with being "sealed", more or less, on the end. Though I'm not sure how that would be much different than using a regular sleeping bag on top of a bottom only quilt. But who knows, that may have something to do with the different ratings. Also, it seems to me the PeaPopd I got has a good bit more loft than rated, especially after I shift some of the excess from the ends to the middle.

    Or it could just be that you are either a more conservative "rater" than Ed or a colder sleeper than Ed. After all, these things are quite subjective, with two different folks doing the rating under different circumstances. Which is why, I guess, that BPL refuses to even comment on the validity of a bag's temp ratings.
    Bill

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