MacPack ponderings...

[Rat]

For reference, I weighed my Molly MacPack Model 12 Peregrine Nylon on my scales last night. This scale is only good to a .25 ounce/10 grams resolution.

2 nylon straps w/ladder locs = 1.5 ounces
front panel w/water bottle holder = 9.75 ounces
camera pouch = 1.25 ounces
2 3/4 strap w/SRB = 1.50 ounces
4L MacPouch (old style) = 4.5 ounces
4L MacPouch (new style) = 4.25 ounces
MMP 12 nylon (29" pad {34" waist belt}, shoulder straps, back panel, water bottle holder and Alu. lumbar stays) 43.25 ounces

So my pack alone weighs:
MMP 12 nylon = 43.25
8 nylon straps = 6 ounces
Front Panel = 9.75 ounces
total = 59 ounces or 3 pounds 11 ounces

No matter what, the belt stays - I love the belt. What I need to find out is this; how much does the AngrySparrow front panel weigh and how much does the Model 12 Poly back panel weigh? Does anyone have these they can weigh for me?

This is the first time I have weighed any of my gear individually! I usually load it up and do the stand on the scale thing...I can see now that I am beginning a downward spiral.

This thing carries a load so well that if I can't get a full pound off of the weight I am not going to mess with it. There, that should stop the descent into gram weenie madness!

[tbone]

What do you think of the idea of having separate stays in the belt and the back panel ? The stays being designed in such a way that you would quick connect them some how. You would probably need to make the back panel shorter so that it would set above the waist belt. Your essentials would be on the belt, my thoughts would be that this would be a quick way to ditch gear that you don`t need for whatever reason but you wouldn`t have to have a separate carry system for said gear.

[BillyBob58]

This is the first time I have weighed any of my gear individually! I usually load it up and do the stand on the scale thing...I can see now that I am beginning a downward spiral.

This thing carries a load so well that if I can't get a full pound off of the weight I am not going to mess with it. There, that should stop the descent into gram weenie madness!

Sounds reasonable!

Trying to be reasonable when it comes to more money spent and more gear filling up the house, I guess it might also depend on how often you are going "UL" and how often fairly heavy. If I was most frequently hauling 30 or 40 lbs, I don't know if I would acquire more gear just to save a pound. Especially as it might not carry the 30 or 40 lb load as well.

If I am most often well below 20 lbs, well 1 lb saved is about double percentage wise.

Still, it might all be madness! How much difference is there in carry between my last 18 lb load and 19 3/4? Especially when only a few years ago I was always above 40?

[Rat]

What do you think of the idea of having separate stays in the belt and the back panel ? The stays being designed in such a way that you would quick connect them some how. You would probably need to make the back panel shorter so that it would set above the waist belt. Your essentials would be on the belt, my thoughts would be that this would be a quick way to ditch gear that you don`t need for whatever reason but you wouldn`t have to have a separate carry system for said gear.

Interesting concept, and I guess that is kinda what I do now; just not the quick connect part. In reality it only takes a minute to remove the back panel from the belt and another minute to reconfigure pouches. What really makes the stays so much better is that they really marry the back panel to the belt; there is no slack what-so-ever so the heavier loads don't get uncomfortable from the belt collapsing.

I have also thought of using the front panel to keep all the essentials on and then, when needed, add a sling and carry it like a courier bag being able to ditch the main pack if needed.

I will have to ponder the quick connect concept some more...

I made some changes in the pack this afternoon after work, added some stuff to the MacPouches and repaired my vertical stay pockets where I had removed the stays while experimenting with alternate configurations. I will get some images up later tonight of the changes.

[tbone]

If your stays are made out of flat stock my thoughts were that you would copy the design of a door hinge to a limited extent. Roll the ends of the stays where the connection would be made. Use whatever you would use as the hinge pin as your form to roll the ends around , using a hammer for the final touches.
The final product being , the bottom of the top stay would be maybe a 1/2 of an inch wide. The top of the bottom stay would have 2 tongues with a 9/16 space in the middle,
To make the connection just line them up and insert whatever you want to use as the "hinge pin". I`m just spitballing here but this hinge design would definitely be strong enough to bear a load but there might also be some type of beneficial side effect with flexibility when you bend your torso around.
Good work on your videos and reviews of this product. I think you have pretty much cinched it for me on wanting one, I `ll have to talk to Mrs. Santa now. I might actually get a use out of the duffles of molle pouches too.

[tbone]

I have also thought of using the front panel to keep all the essentials on and then, when needed, add a sling and carry it like a courier bag being able to ditch the main pack if needed.

http://www.tacticaltailor.com/minimav.aspx
Put some quick connect buckles on this so when the pack is you can share the load with the packs suspension.

[Rat]

Okay, here are the images. I haven't done a whole lot of cutting yet, but I plan to after I give it a few test runs to see if it is going to work correctly.

First up, I moved the shoulder strap anchors to the belt instead of the back panel. The main reason was for ease of operation. With them in the factory configuration you gotta fight the pouches on the belt just about every time you don the pack; not anymore! This also helps to keep the belt from sagging down and getting caught up between you and the back panel; especially if you have a water bottle on the belt.

Here you can see my pinkie finger pointing to the new location and my index finger pointing to the old location; the angle is almost just about the same, the anchor strap is just shorter now.





Here you can see it plays nicely with the pouches attached tot he belt; it is completely out of the way.



I moved the front panel anchors from the rear panel to the front of the belt. They are kinda hard to find when donning and you need to make sure they run under any pouches on the belt. Moving them to the front eliminates both of these problems and will allow me to shorten them considerably.



I also cut the upper front panel strap, no need for 30 inches of extra strap.



Alternatively, these four straps could be switched to 3/4 inch poly webbing to save even more weight.

Here is what I did to fix my stays. I had cut the top of the stay pocket out to remove the stay. I was experimenting with using the back panel as a compression pod (think gearskin, but folded down not up); it worked well and Wildman ordered his with removable stays just for this reason. I will likely never use this feature so I sewed mine back closed. In lieu of using the back panel as a compression pod I would either just remove the back panel and rig to the belt or, rig the front panel at the rear of the belt and cinch down my load to that.



I modified my original MacPouches, these are the 4L MacPouches and they had a crazy strap used to secure the pouch to the belt as well as act as a closure for the pouch. I don't need three closures so I eliminated two of them and turned them into webbing tails. The problem with the webbing tails is they would try to work free during a hike because they are 3/4 inch webbing; so I added snaps to stop this.





I am also using alternating color cinch straps. This helps me index the next set of cinch straps quicker when loading; having everything black overloads my brain sometimes. I am also going to order 3/4" poly webbing for my cinch straps; I bought some REI Nylon 3/4" straps and they work great. Poly will be lighter and I need to get at least two colors.

[Rat]

http://www.tacticaltailor.com/minimav.aspx
Put some quick connect buckles on this so when the pack is you can share the load with the packs suspension.

I have experimented with my tactical vest (TAV), and while the MAV would proly work better I think it would still get in the way of the front panel and shoulder straps. It was a bigger benefit to use the front panel only and this is when I started playing with the idea of the drop-leg rig for survival gear. Always attached, no thinking involved. But since I have revised my operational paradigm I no longer think I need my survival gear attached to me at all times no matter what. Of course, being able to recognize when to reconfigure is paramount. Going lighter means less weight, but more brain power. I just need to remember that.

Maybe I will have Mac build me an ultralight drop-leg rig!

Madness I tell ya...

[tbone]

I have experimented with my tactical vest (TAV), and while the MAV would proly work better I think it would still get in the way of the front panel and shoulder straps. It was a bigger benefit to use the front panel only and this is when I started playing with the idea of the drop-leg rig for survival gear. Always attached, no thinking involved. But since I have revised my operational paradigm I no longer think I need my survival gear attached to me at all times no matter what. Of course, being able to recognize when to reconfigure is paramount. Going lighter means less weight, but more brain power. I just need to remember that.

Maybe I will have Mac build me an ultralight drop-leg rig!

Madness I tell ya...

I was thinking you would use the mav instead of the front panel. Keep the harness on it but attach some buckles to it that would attach to the same attachment points as your current front panel does. That probably wouldn`t be comfortable though, those harness straps on the TT rigs are more comfortable on top of armor.

[MacEntyre]

Hogn8r, when you get your new set of Molly Pouches, you will see that they have PALS tails separate from the closures. It weighs more, but works better.

I like the placement of your anchors for the shoulder straps and front pack. With the 29" belt now standard issue, the FP anchors should be on the front of the belt. I might try installing a sewn-in shoulder strap anchor, running inside the belt, to transfer the load aft, all the way to where the belt attaches to the back panel.

Normally, I make the entire front pack suspension using 3/4" webbing, including the load lifters. I've got a misconception that you prefer 1" webbing with your heavy loads.

Polypropylene webbing is very strong when used in a PALS array. It is much lighter than nylon. There is a lot of webbing in a Molly Mac Pack! I think both the Poly Peregrine and the Nylon Peregrine have become lighter over the last year, using tricks learned from making the Angrysparrow.

The Angrysparrow front pack is a good rig... lightweight, breathes well, and for all practical purposes it carries as much as the more substantial Cordura front pack. A Poly Peregrine with an AS FP would be an excellent compromise between durability and light weight.

CapitalBill has used his Front Pack flipped onto the load on his back. If you fold it in half vertically, it might even make a good basis for a thigh rig!

We need to share ideas on a hike someday, Hogn8r! I'd need to bring a hand-stitcher!