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  1. #1
    Senior Member FreeTheWeasel's Avatar
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    Must...go...colder...(brrr)

    Yesterday, the weather forecast for Ashland was for a low of 13 F. Like most of you and unlike most of the population who are not insane, I ran outside to sleep.

    I had my 4" 3/4 length differential underquilt (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=23515) and my 3" full length Red Rive Gorge flat quilt on top. I used a 3/4 length REI self inflating pad for foot and buttocks insulation and a small camp pillow under the head. I did not use a tarp because there was no room on my deck to stretch it out.

    Clothing: long underwear (light synthetic from REI), two pairs of socks, one pair of camp pants, a T-shirt, fleece pullover, fleece balaclava that I can pull up over my rather large nose, and fleece gloves.

    There was no wind and the thermometer registered a low of 19 F.

    Most of the night, I was rather comfortable. At around 5 am, I woke with a slight chill along my left hip and leg as I lay on my side. I tried to ignore it, couldn't, went inside to the bathroom, and placed a small section of close cell Blue Foam pad under my hip. That helped, but I still felt it just a bit, so I opened one of those oxygen activated heat packs. Ohhhh, toasty. Fell back to sleep and woke up at 8:15 am, seriously late for work. Boogers!

    So, here is my question: how do I go colder? I want to get to 0 F without the need for a secondary heat source such as the hand warmer packets or hot water bottle. This way, I should be prepared for serious winter camping in case the poo-poo really hits the fan. I seem to suffer from CBS (cold butt syndrome) no matter what I do. This has plagued me from the beginning with my Hennessy supershelter, through my flat quilt days, and now into my differential 3/4 quilt.

    Perhaps a better pad than my thermarest knock off? At first the pad was deflated. I tried letting a bit of air into it and that may have helped a bit. I did try adjusting my quilt to prove less tension on the end gathering bungie. When I overtighten it, it does bunch up a bit leaving gaps.

    Should I just accept the fact that I am going to need more heat? Full length differential underquilt? My torso was great, the 3/4 did a fine job with that.

    Help me channel my inner Shug!

    FreeTheWeasel

  2. #2
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Possibly drooping by the buttocks area overnight..........
    I added loops to my UQ sides at my butt area and hook them to my ridgeline .... cured all! For sure. Now this is on my Winter Over-stuffed Yeti.
    5:00AM is chill time all around.
    The Triangle Thingees seem to be helping other folks......

    Shug
    Last edited by Shug; 11-24-2010 at 18:43.
    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Good in the Backwood Hood.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    Possibly drooping by the buttocks area overnight..........
    I added loops to my UQ sides at my butt area and hook them to my ridgeline .... cured all! For sure. Now this is on my Winter Over-stuffed Yeti.
    5:00AM is chill time all around.
    The Triangle Things seem to be helping other folks......

    Shug
    No one better to help you channel your inner Shug than Shug!

  4. #4
    Senior Member FreeTheWeasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    Possibly drooping by the buttocks area overnight..........
    I added loops to my UQ sides at my butt area and hook them to my ridgeline .... cured all! For sure. Now this is on my Winter Over-stuffed Yeti.
    5:00AM is chill time all around.
    The Triangle Thingees seem to be helping other folks......

    Shug
    Wait! Are you saying my butt is drooping? You know, I realize I'm aging but that is awfully insensitive for you to call attention to my deflating posterior. Sagging is a normal part of life, right? Oh man, I need to hit the gym now if Shug is going to be watching . . .

    Does this hammock make my butt look fat?

    I'll give your suggestion a try, oh Master-of-the-Cold. Since this is a 3/4 underquilt, I can pull the suspension at the foot end so that it makes more of a vertical jump to the ridgeline and then horizontal out to the foot attachment.

    Thank you very much.

    FreeTheWeasel

  5. #5
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTheWeasel View Post
    Wait! Are you saying my butt is drooping? You know, I realize I'm aging but that is awfully insensitive for you to call attention to my deflating posterior. Sagging is a normal part of life, right? Oh man, I need to hit the gym now if Shug is going to be watching . . .

    Does this hammock make my butt look fat?

    I'll give your suggestion a try, oh Master-of-the-Cold. Since this is a 3/4 underquilt, I can pull the suspension at the foot end so that it makes more of a vertical jump to the ridgeline and then horizontal out to the foot attachment.

    Thank you very much.

    FreeTheWeasel
    Your buttocks looks very high and tight!!!!! I tell my wife that daily.
    You can see the UQ lifters on this video at ... at 3:00 minutes in.
    Shug

    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Good in the Backwood Hood.

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  6. #6
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    Possibly drooping by the buttocks area overnight..........
    I added loops to my UQ sides at my butt area and hook them to my ridgeline .... cured all! For sure. Now this is on my Winter Over-stuffed Yeti.
    5:00AM is chill time all around.
    The Triangle Thingees seem to be helping other folks......

    Shug
    This sounds most likely. Have you had any one check the foot end gap situation once you are in? This chronic CBS deal is interesting.

    Have you ever tried a full length UQ or PeaPod, just to see if that would make any dif? Whether with the HHSS, or numerous UQs, CBS has been very rare for me, even if I was cold overall or on my back.

    Wild card possibility: head/neck insulation. On one trip Feb 09, it got down into the high 20s and gave us a very rare snow. I was in my JRB BMBH with a MW4 (rated 0-10), and a Golight 20 degree rated TQ. For clothing, I wore a hooded very lightweight Polarguard jacket and pants, plus I think I had a fleece cap under the jacket hood. I have previously slept to ~50-52F with just this clothing on top, no TQ, and a SS under me, and was just OK. Adding the Golight TQ should have been more than enough at ~ 27 or so. Especially with such a warm UQ.

    Middle of the night, when I woke up to take a leak, I was aware that I was not quite warm enough. I was not aware of a cold back, it was more of a top or all over coolness. I had brought along a separate hood, a Marnot GTX with ~ 2.5-3" of down loft, single layer. I put it on and went back to bed. In a short while, I was toasty warm and went back to sound sleep until 7 or 0800.

    That impressed me. I would have thought I already had plenty of head warmth with the PG jacket hood and fleece cap, at those not severe temps. But a separate mummy style sleeping bag hood easily solved my overall warmth problem, from just a little too cool to toasty warm. Just something to consider, a possibility.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  7. #7
    Senior Member FreeTheWeasel's Avatar
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    Hammock Forum Wizards

    I thank you for your suggestions and your help. As I walked around my house this evening, thinking about CBS (cold butt syndrome) and why it seems to have afflicted me so badly, I had an epiphany.

    I use a Hennessy Hyperlite hammock; whereas, my daughter uses a purple Ultralight Backpacker. The velcro that holds the bottom entry flap together on hers is much stronger than the the velcro on mine so that most nights as I thrash around, the flap invariably opens. Sometimes my foot falls out. Most times, nothing happens and I notice it in the morning.

    What I just realized is that as the flap opens, it changes the load on the underlying insulation be it a supershelter, a flat underquilt, or a differential underquilt. Spreading the hammock and letting it collapse will cause momentary gaps in the seal of the underinsulation and pump cold air right into my delicate nether regions.

    I'm going to rip out the wimpy velcro and replace it with industrial strength, hold up a volkswagen, gorilla velcro. Or I may sew up the flap altogether and put in zippers on the bug netting.

    I'm traveling for the holiday so I won't be able to work on this for a few days, but I'll report back and let you know what I find.

    FreeTheWeasel

  8. #8
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTheWeasel View Post
    .............
    I'm going to rip out the wimpy velcro and replace it with industrial strength, hold up a volkswagen, gorilla velcro. Or I may sew up the flap altogether and put in zippers on the bug netting.

    I'm traveling for the holiday so I won't be able to work on this for a few days, but I'll report back and let you know what I find.

    FreeTheWeasel
    That latter may prove really useful. After cutting the net of of my HH UL Expl, I can vouch for how very useful it is to be able to reach outside of a HH hammock, whether with a SS or other UQs. Then you can adjust OCF pads or added insulation or various UQs as needed. And make sure that pads/UQs are where they should be, seals at shoulder are correct, suspension is tight enough but not tight enough to compress insulation loft, etc.

    Not being able to reach out of a hammock is almost a 100% hindrance to all of the above.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  9. #9
    Senior Member gargoyle's Avatar
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    FTW, Your kit looks really nice. Your 900 fill quilt should do the trick.
    Perhaps, a larger tarp for a small micro climate effect.

    Sometimes,chill happens...
    Ambulo tua ambulo.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Festus Hagen's Avatar
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    I bought an UQ so I wouldn't have to use pads anymore. I guess I could supplement the UQ with pads if it was going to be COLD but we're talking -20F or worse, if that.

    The only time I get CBS is if I overtighten my UQ. It doesn't even have to be that cold.

    You do need something over the hammock to reflect heat back at you (it rises, remember). Stringing a tarp will help with overall comfort.

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