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  1. #1
    Senior Member zukiguy's Avatar
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    Cold, wet back....yuck

    Some friends met me up for a weekend of hiking on the eastern section of the FT transiting Apalachicola National Forest. Thursday night the temps dipped to just below freezing so I figured this was a perfect opportunity to try out my new UQ/UC setup along with my upgraded suspension.

    My HH went up in a flash thanks to the new whoopies, compliments of JRB. I got a ridgeline set and my MacCat tarp ready to go. The Te-wa 3-season was rigged to the underside along with an undercover from 2Q2Z. I was ready for bed.

    I hopped in and covered up with my 30F down bag and put my feet on top of a few chunks of 1/4" volara foam. I was ready for a good night's sleep. The temps were likely just above freezing but I was bundled up in some midweight thermals, hat, socks, and a fleece jacket.

    I slept soundly until early morning when I awoke to the dreaded CBS (cold butt syndrome). I also felt a bit damp so I reached out and felt the underside of the hammock and it was soaked (no late night accidents though). Looks like I had the undercover cinched up a bit too much for the weather or some temp/humidity combo had conspired to cause a lot of condensation. It was damp both above and below the UQ which kind of had me stumped.

    I pulled off the UQ and mopped up as much moisture as I could. I slid one piece of the foam under my back/butt and tried to go back to sleep. I got a few more fitful hours of sleep then woke to a very frosty morning.

    So, thanks to my noob mistakes I chose to be a ground dweller for the rest of the weekend. I'll get some more practice in between now and the FL hang in Jan. I'm sure I'll learn a lot from my fellow hammockers then too.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Northern Virginia
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    So sorry to hear about your experience. I think your issue is a misunderstanding about 2QZQ's underquilt cover. From their site:
    Silnylon is waterproof, therefore doesn't breathe, so take precautions to avoid condensation issues on your quilt. Something to act as a vapor barrier between hammock and quilt is required in most cases.
    You didn't mention a vapor barrier in your setup. The underquilt cover is not breathable so, without one, all your vapor had nowhere to go underneath you and everything got soaked.

    I've never used an UQ cover myself, so that's all I can really say about it. To be honest, I'm not sure how a vapor barrier would help avoid a sweaty back. Seems to me it would only protect your quilt, but you'd still wake up with a sweaty back. However, I've not tried it, so I could be wrong. Hopefully, a more experience member will chime in here.

    ~Dan

  3. #3
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Well, you almost made it comfy all night!

    If I am understanding your set up correctly, that result was probably fairly predictable. As you probably have already figured out, a vapor barrier( 2Q UC) on the cold side of insulation most likely results in wet insulation.

    Solutions:
    1:do not use UC in that fashion. Or it will happen again. At the very least you will probably need some distance between the UQ and UC, and you can still expect condensation on the UQ.
    2: Put another VB ( like a space blanket) between your hammock and the down UQ, making sure it covers the entire thing. In my experience this will boost the warmth of your UQ 10 + degrees plus keep your down dry while allowing use of the UC. But experiment in the back yard. The above always has worked real good for me, but it doesn't seem to with every body. YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyBoy2k View Post
    So sorry to hear about your experience. I think your issue is a misunderstanding about 2QZQ's underquilt cover. From their site:

    You didn't mention a vapor barrier in your setup. The underquilt cover is not breathable so, without one, all your vapor had nowhere to go underneath you and everything got soaked.

    I've never used an UQ cover myself, so that's all I can really say about it. To be honest, I'm not sure how a vapor barrier would help avoid a sweaty back. Seems to me it would only protect your quilt, but you'd still wake up with a sweaty back. However, I've not tried it, so I could be wrong. Hopefully, a more experience member will chime in here.

    ~Dan
    Again, folks do seem to vary. I would not expect a sweaty back ( with a VB directly under my hammock) unless I over heated. Or if the VB is cold, as in using only a space blanket for warmth rather than a SB on top of insulation. I have never noticed anything more than a few drops(if that much) on the space blanket that is on top of my HHSS OCF pad, or in my PeaPod.

    But that's just me! Others have had problems.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 12-07-2010 at 15:39.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    The key bits in this - the temps were just above freezing, and you used a waterproof cover outside the underquilt. I wouldn't use the cover unless it were well below freezing. If there were cold breezes I would pitch the hammock and tarp to provide coverage and then hang the undercover loosely enough that there was a gap between quilt and undercover, to ensure stray cold gusts didn't creep in and seep through the down. Otherwise the cover would stay packed until the temp dropped below 20F.

    The moisture you had was from you - if you are at freezing or above, you will only trap insensible perspiration inside your quilt with a waterproof barrier outside the quilt. I spent a night with a full length down quilt in the 20-25F range, with a poncho hung loosely to cut a side breeze that kept sneaking under the tarp edge - I shook ice chips off the quilt shell in the morning. There was no humidity, no precipitation, so no doubt that it all came out of me....

  5. #5
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    Sorry to hear of the wet, uncomfortable hang zukiguy.
    I'm not yet using a UQ. Soon, it's on order. So no real advice from me. We all learn from each other's trial & error.

    Keep experimenting with your hammock setup. We'll compare notes.
    Looking forward to meeting you at the 1st Annual Florida Hang in January.

  6. #6
    Senior Member zukiguy's Avatar
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    Thanks guys,
    I kind of expected this a bit. I threw the UC on there kind of as an afterthought and to keep some of the breeze off my underside. As it turned out I had no real idea how loose to have the cover in order to block breezes but not trap moisture. I'll know better for next time.

    Thanks for the ideas on an additional VB on top of the UQ. A buddy is supposed to hook me up with some thin CCF (wood flooring underlay). I think a scrap of this stuff or maybe even some tyvek would do the trick and not be as crinkly as a space blanket.

    I'm still tinkering with the setup. Between all the sticky threads and videos here I'll get it figured out. As I mentioned, this was kind of an experiment....Albeit a failed one. I brought the tent/pad as a backup and in the shuffle forgot my bag of extra clothes in the back of my friends car. That's a different story...

  7. #7
    MAD777's Avatar
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    I am a firm believer in ventilation and breathable fabrics. Even as a tent dweller, ventilation was alway a primary concern of mine. If anything, it's even more important in a hammock where layers are closely spaced. Like Lori said above, I wouldn't think of using an non-breathable undercover unless it was well below freezing when I went to bed.

  8. #8
    Senior Member eflat7's Avatar
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    Nothing worse than a miserable night out. I've never had an issue with moisture, but at least some people here have, and can offer a little help.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    This is similiar to hiking with rain gear on. You are going to get wet.

    I use my undercover as an additional wind screen and guard against rain splatter. Therefore I set it up with a gap between it and the UQ.

    If you are adventrous, you could sew a strip of breathable material into it along its "ridgeline". That might help.
    Love my JRB BMB

  10. #10
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by tjm View Post
    This is similiar to hiking with rain gear on. You are going to get wet.

    I use my undercover as an additional wind screen and guard against rain splatter. Therefore I set it up with a gap between it and the UQ.

    If you are adventrous, you could sew a strip of breathable material into it along its "ridgeline". That might help.
    I think my last sil-nylon UC test was last fall. With my HH SS UC, a down vest and fleece jacket, the HHSS pad ( and torso/kidney pads? can't remember for sure) all covered with a Heat Sheet space blanket. And of course there is no real gap with the SS under cover, as the elastic suspension holds all fairly snug up against the hammock.

    Hi teens, but still warm and dry! I have been lucky that way. So far, I have never had a condensation problems from that system, except one of the times I skipped the SB. In very high humidity in the high 40s.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

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