Ok so I finally bit the bullet on some JRB sleeves. I ordered on Friday and I got the tracking on Saturday email said they were here today got home hunted down the mail man and asked hilm if I could get my package. He handed me my JRB sleeves and I went on my merry way. So these things are awesome. I'm wearing them just sitting in the house and they are so warm. I plann on one mod however. cutting off the omnie and replacing with reinforced mitten hooks. So thanks jacks for the great service and a great product that will now be on all my winter trips