Technical Note on Canvas for Extreme Cold

**Carver** · 01-29-2011, 19:21

Great review, Mac. When will the canvas pictures be up on mollymacpack.com? "Could not be more better."

**MedicineMan** · 01-29-2011, 19:25

Its a geographical argument.
Just remember that if you want an economical and extremely lightweight method to prevent moisture from entering your downy goodness use a vapor barrier. Sac or suit
doesn't matter-your moisture won't be going through the sil-nyl (if your vapor barrier is
sil-nyl) and into your insulation. Inside your downy goodness and inside your VPL you'll be warm and damp...the only pain is in the morning when you climb out of that warm wetness and put on your hiking clothes. It can be a shock you'll never forget-damp and naked at 8F--but you'll get out of the VPL and into clothes quickly!
The same lightweight economical approach has been used for a long time on the feet with bread sacks against skin and then the socks-same principle, the plastic bag prevents moisture from entering the socks/boots.
If you live in the north country you'd def. have a lot of canvas items or even Ventille...in the south where as mentioned above below zero is rare, there is this optional approach using VPLs. It's up to each hiker/paddler/explorer of course to weigh
the humidity, the temps at hand, how much you want to carry and make your decision.

**koaloha05** · 01-29-2011, 19:27

Mac, thanks for the info. Personally I find breathable & highly wind resistant outer gear to be a necessity for cold winter outdoor comfort.

Originally Posted by RAW

...I've been eyeballing the anoraks and such from Empire Canvas.
But I keep thinking about the weight. And how that stuff doesn't do double duty...

Heavy weight may not be necessary except for durability, abrasion resistance. Have a very old & much used light "canvas" anorak. Not 100% cotton. Material is densely woven from a relatively fine thread. Very windproof and very breathable. Very soft feel. Zero waterproofing. A plus is the body moisture "wicks" to the outer surface and then freezes. Never feel wet unless temps are warm or after coming in from the cold. Key is wearing the proper base layer(s). Used from +12,000 ft in the mountains to here in midwest during the winters. Ski touring, X/C training, winter runs, snowshoeing. Just came in from a run wearing it. Bit faded & getting "thin" in some areas.

Maybe the people at ECW would consider a 3 or 6 oz weight canvas?

**MAD777** · 01-29-2011, 19:57

Originally Posted by mayday

I returned from my second OKPIK week at the Northern Tier High Adventure Base in Ely, MN.

So....LONG LIVE CANVAS FOR EXTREME COLD AND DRY SNOW!

Thank you for the collaborating evidence! Most of us don't see these conditions but as more and more forum members are surviving these trips, I'm all the more intrigued! It's great to learn from the experience of others.

**MacEntyre** · 01-29-2011, 20:52

Originally Posted by Medicine Man

Its a geographical argument.

Au contraire. It's a temperature and humidity concern. If temps will be below 20*F, you can use breathable footwear and outerwear.

I understand the alternative to a completely breathable layered approach, but the idea of waking up warm and moist has no appeal for me!

I carry Tingley's 17" Rubber Overboots just in case there is a warmup... I would switch out the anorak for a lightweight poncho, if wet precipitation made that necessary. Otherwise, if the forecast shows no chance of temps above 25*F, I'll go with canvas.

**MacEntyre** · 01-29-2011, 20:53

Originally Posted by book

Great review, Mac. When will the canvas pictures be up on mollymacpack.com?

Soon!

**OutandBack** · 01-30-2011, 00:55

Originally Posted by MacEntyre

Soon!

Jeez Mac, If everyone is wearing Mukluks and Anoraks at the next Minnesota
Winter Hang how are we going to know which one's you?

All kidding aside, enjoyed your info and looking forward to seeing your new goods on the website.

**oldgringo** · 01-30-2011, 06:18

I really appreciate an engineer that can discuss technical topics w/o giving me a headache. Thanks for that.

**stairguy** · 01-30-2011, 07:20

Originally Posted by MedicineMan

Its a . Inside your downy goodness and inside your VPL you'll be warm and damp...the only pain is in the morning when you climb out of that warm wetness and put on your hiking clothes. It can be a shock you'll never forget-damp and naked at 8F--but you'll get out of the VPL and into clothes quickly!
.

At the Minnesota Frozen Butt my sleep system included wearing my 24 oz wool pants and my Empire Canvas Works blanket shirt,both which were worn during the day, both which aloowed breathability. It was like sleeping w/a wool blanket. There was no need to wake up wet and get naked.