View Poll Results: If you got an HHSS on sale, how do you like it(or not!)

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  • Love it, warm/dry and wind is well blocked

    12 27.27%
  • I got it but have not had time to test it so far

    9 20.45%
  • OK for the money, but I would really rather have a down UQ.

    17 38.64%
  • Got it, I don't like it, want my money back!

    3 6.82%
  • I hate the bulk of the HH pad!

    4 9.09%
  • I hate the fragile pad!

    1 2.27%
  • Love the over cover!

    6 13.64%
  • Over Cover is a useless 3 oz!

    0 0%
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  1. #21
    New Member AA1PR's Avatar
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    My Atempts

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Hi AA1PR, thanks for the additional info!

    Does that include help/ideas on the HHSS, or have you totally given up on that? Because just like you will never be warm at minus 12 in high winds with a similar weight ( ~ 21 oz ) full length long down UQ by itself( not a chance!), you will not make it in the basic SS at those temps, as you have already well proved. It ( or that down UQ ) must be well augmented for these temps way beyond their ratings.

    It is great to hear you are planning on trying some other options, I can't argue against that, not with all the gear I have tried and still have! However, until you get that other gear ( gonna be way over $99 ), you might experiment with various tricks with your SS, if you have not burned it already!

    First, let me repeat the question from the other post: "And of course ( but have to ask): you did use the space blanket didn't you? ". Just making sure, because you don't stand a chance in the basic SS without the space blanket.

    Next thought: Do you have a larger tarp? I'm asking because you mentioned the 25+MPH wind. Now I realize the HH Overcover is not a tight seal- helps prevent condensation- but I have still found it blocks a noticeable amount of wind, and holds in some heat. It really seems to me way better than nothing, but may be not.

    But most of all, as you were using that tiny HH tarp, are you aware of how much benefit you got from that Sil-nylon (same as tarp material) under cover? Here is my guess: if you had been using a 30*F rated ( comparable to the HHSS rating) down UQ by itself, and the wind was getting past the small HH tarp as it apparently was, you might have been way worse off than just bad cold- if you could not escape inside any way. That wind would have sliced through the usual UL down quilt shell like a knife through butter and probably sucked nearly all warmed up air right out. One way you could tell this is to just pull that HH UC to the side in a windy 10F and see how much worse it can get.

    Next thought is: have you got a way to be adequately warm on top with out using both bags? Say with lots of warm clothing inside one of those bags? Or do you just have a spare even summer bag, and/or thick lofty clothing you are not going to sleep in? If so, try this: take one of those bags and put it down into the under cover, underneath the HH pad and space blanket on top of it all, covering everything completely. That should buy you another 25-50 degrees of protection on the bottom. That might make all the difference in the world. Or put a pad in the UC ( I know, not usually recommended by HH) and make sure to put a puffy down bag or clothing on top of that. One guy- kwpapke - has been warm at minus 27 with such a technique, hanging side by side with the infamous Shug as a witness!
    http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=6740

    I don't know if that will make you toasty at minus 12 in high winds, but I can almost guarantee you will be one heck of a lot warmer than you were!

    Just trying to give you some ideas to get you through until you can get something else, assuming you have not already given it away or sold it. Good luck!

    P.S.
    What are those MSS bags made of, synthetic or down? If synthetic, you will still get some good back warmth by laying on them inside the hammock. But you won't have near as much warmth on the bottom- after your weight compresses the insulation- as you will on top or if you were on a pad on the ground. And, if down, the warmth will be close to zero at the point of greatest compression. However, if you put one of those bags under the HH pad, you will get almost all the warmth of the bottom layer AND the top layer added to the warmth of the HH pad. Assuming you have enough clothing to be warm enough on top with just one bag- the warmest bag if they are different.
    I did not bring a space blanket with me as I thought it was included with the system, dumb on my part to assume. Since I seen it int eh HH videos I thought it was part of the syste& included. I think the MSS is synethic. I was laying on the patrol bag adn had the intermediate one covering me, similiar to an under & over quilt.

    I had the larger hex fly, but my son was using that as an improvised shelter and sleeping in the gortex bivy and wanted that so he had a cover over him to cook in etc. I think that would have helped to cut down teh wind drastically.

    I was wearing my polypro [ecwcs] expedition weight thermals with fleece over that. My problem again is my back injury, the cold penetrates it and I can not get warm for anything. So a normal person could have been fine. I even wore a down jacket to bed. I knew the down compressed on the back some...however. I had a thermarest ridgerest pad also. Even though I have thought about getting the small version and cutting it out like the foam pad that HH provides. I even called and talked to Tom @HH about addiing some primaloft to the interior of the undercover.he seems to think the foam he provides is much better as it does nto compress. I find this confusing a bit, sinc ethe under cover is not a support but a cover that encompasses the exterior of the hammock. His opinion was that it would be too compressed to do any good.

    Yeah, I have seen all of the Shug videos before I decide to hang, He is insane is a good sense

    What I expereinced and my biggest complain is that the under cover and top cover of the 4 season insulation system do not seal perfectly when you enter the hammock. They open up to reveal a gap along the edges. Maybe with no wind I would have not cared? I am thinking that I may sew some primaloft into the undercover. Then again that money could also be better spent towards an UQ.

    Since I just built 3 DIY hammocks from the resources I found here, I might just have to try and build my UQ & OQ too!

    Post Script:

    I really should never have been out there with my injury and the severe conditions we were having. However sometimes what nature dishes out is the best conditions for testing gear. It was all part of a winter bug ot contest on another forum...
    Cognito Ergo Sum

  2. #22
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AA1PR View Post
    I did not bring a space blanket with me as I thought it was included with the system, dumb on my part to assume. Since I seen it int eh HH videos I thought it was part of the syste& included. I think the MSS is synethic. I was laying on the patrol bag adn had the intermediate one covering me, similiar to an under & over quilt.
    OK, hopefully we can get this thing working, even though you will probably end up going UQ. First thought: A $3, 2 or 3 oz space blanket (preferably Heatsheet) is virtually mandatory when using the HH undercover. Especially with the HH pad, but really with whatever insulation you have down in the undercover. Here is what I will bet $1 on: if you had the SB right under the hammock/over the pad that night, you would have been 15 to 20F warmer. Would that have been warm enough? Probably not, but it would have been a lot less awful! I'm actually surprised your pad was not also soaking wet as well as you being way cold! But hey, now you understand that. Bummer that you thought it came with it, though I can see where that would be confusing. Many is the person who tried to use the HHSS below 40 without the SB, and those folks make up a large number(OK, not all) of the ss haters. IMO, the HH pad inside the HH UC without the space blanket is barely better than dog do do unless it is above 50. And it is asking for a night of swimming in condensation without the sb, even if you occasionally get away with it.

    2nd thought: What about instead of partially or mostly compressing the Patrol bag by laying on it, instead put the Patrol bag under the pad, down in the UC. In addition to the space blanket boost, I think this would now add an additional major back warmth boost. A good bit more than laying on the Patrol bag. Just keep a watch out for the relatively heavy bag causing too much UC sag. If it does you may need to tighten the UC up a bit.

    I was wearing my polypro [ecwcs] expedition weight thermals with fleece over that. My problem again is my back injury, the cold penetrates it and I can not get warm for anything. So a normal person could have been fine.
    Well, I don't know if a normal person would have been fine at minus 12 with a basic HHSS, but they might well have done better than you with that back injury. Sorry to hear about that, I'm sure it adds a good bit of trouble- whatever the system- trying to keep warm. Insult to injury- the hammock is toughest to keep warm in the back/butt.

    I even wore a down jacket to bed. I knew the down compressed on the back some...however. I had a thermarest ridgerest pad also. Even though I have thought about getting the small version and cutting it out like the foam pad that HH provides. I even called and talked to Tom @HH about addiing some primaloft to the interior of the undercover.he seems to think the foam he provides is much better as it does nto compress. I find this confusing a bit, sinc ethe under cover is not a support but a cover that encompasses the exterior of the hammock. His opinion was that it would be too compressed to do any good.
    Were you also laying on the Ridgerest?

    I find Tom's response confusing also. The HH pad most certainly compresses, probably about as much- or close enough- as Primaloft. But the UC, though it does provide some pad support, does not normally provide enough tension to compress the pad enough to be a problem(if at all). Primaloft(or Polarguard) in the UC might compress a little more, but would still be very useful. But, I don't think I would try to replace the shaped HH pad with PL. I would just add some to the UC under the pad. My favorite overall item added to the UC is my 9 oz Patagonia down vest. It is several inches thick both counting front and back. And it fits perfectly from my butt to top of my back. The UC compresses it some, but most loft is still there. The grippy HH pad holds it nicely in place, and it adds intense warmth to keep my tiger blood and Adonis DNA warm. And I have it with me anyway on cold trips, so DUH! WIN! ( Sorry, this is my Charlie Sheen impression) Your down jacket might be a piece of magic down in your UC ( but don't try it without the space blanket, it will get wet!

    What I expereinced and my biggest complain is that the under cover and top cover of the 4 season insulation system do not seal perfectly when you enter the hammock. They open up to reveal a gap along the edges. Maybe with no wind I would have not cared?
    Maybe, but the whole purpose of the OC is to block wind. I don't have the same trouble as you with my OC, It covers pretty well. Unless I go fetal, then there is more gapping. And a hard wind hitting it can lift it for a moment. But, I have considered a simple mod of sewing on a couple of loops, then running some shockcord from one loop, over the ridge line to the other loop. I think this would keep the OC in position better.

    I am thinking that I may sew some primaloft into the undercover. Then again that money could also be better spent towards an UQ.
    What about just throwing a jacket or down parka or vest into the UC?

    Hope you work it out, AA!
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  3. #23
    New Member AA1PR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    OK, hopefully we can get this thing working, even though you will probably end up going UQ. First thought: A $3, 2 or 3 oz space blanket (preferably Heatsheet) is virtually mandatory when using the HH undercover. Especially with the HH pad, but really with whatever insulation you have down in the undercover. Here is what I will bet $1 on: if you had the SB right under the hammock/over the pad that night, you would have been 15 to 20F warmer. Would that have been warm enough? Probably not, but it would have been a lot less awful! I'm actually surprised your pad was not also soaking wet as well as you being way cold! But hey, now you understand that. Bummer that you thought it came with it, though I can see where that would be confusing. Many is the person who tried to use the HHSS below 40 without the SB, and those folks make up a large number(OK, not all) of the ss haters. IMO, the HH pad inside the HH UC without the space blanket is barely better than dog do do unless it is above 50. And it is asking for a night of swimming in condensation without the sb, even if you occasionally get away with it.

    I am sure the SB would have helped. I do not think I was properly hydrated that day/night. Which in itself can lead to some of the cold issues I was experiencing. cells were not properly expanding or retracting....The wind removed any condensation I feel.


    2nd thought: What about instead of partially or mostly compressing the Patrol bag by laying on it, instead put the Patrol bag under the pad, down in the UC. In addition to the space blanket boost, I think this would now add an additional major back warmth boost. A good bit more than laying on the Patrol bag. Just keep a watch out for the relatively heavy bag causing too much UC sag. If it does you may need to tighten the UC up a bit.

    I should have tried that, but honestly it was the simplest and furthest from my cognition at the time.

    Well, I don't know if a normal person would have been fine at minus 12 with a basic HHSS, but they might well have done better than you with that back injury. Sorry to hear about that, I'm sure it adds a good bit of trouble- whatever the system- trying to keep warm. Insult to injury- the hammock is toughest to keep warm in the back/butt.

    Yes the cold was excaberating my pain ten fold, waiting for surgery..soon I hope.I have slept in less when I was younger at worse temps and survived. I used to be a polar bear when it came to the cold

    Were you also laying on the Ridgerest?

    Yes I was laying on that also with patrol bag above that. I will add a photo to my profile of the setup [profile pic of this day/night/morning] and the interior of the hammock in my album

    I find Tom's response confusing also. The HH pad most certainly compresses, probably about as much- or close enough- as Primaloft. But the UC, though it does provide some pad support, does not normally provide enough tension to compress the pad enough to be a problem(if at all). Primaloft(or Polarguard) in the UC might compress a little more, but would still be very useful. But, I don't think I would try to replace the shaped HH pad with PL. I would just add some to the UC under the pad. My favorite overall item added to the UC is my 9 oz Patagonia down vest. It is several inches thick both counting front and back. And it fits perfectly from my butt to top of my back. The UC compresses it some, but most loft is still there. The grippy HH pad holds it nicely in place, and it adds intense warmth to keep my tiger blood and Adonis DNA warm. And I have it with me anyway on cold trips, so DUH! WIN! ( Sorry, this is my Charlie Sheen impression) Your down jacket might be a piece of magic down in your UC ( but don't try it without the space blanket, it will get wet!

    I should invest in primaloft gear when time/$$ allows

    Maybe, but the whole purpose of the OC is to block wind. I don't have the same trouble as you with my OC, It covers pretty well. Unless I go fetal, then there is more gapping. And a hard wind hitting it can lift it for a moment. But, I have considered a simple mod of sewing on a couple of loops, then running some shockcord from one loop, over the ridge line to the other loop. I think this would keep the OC in position better.

    I have thought about thread injectig the seams to say within 18 inches from each end. I asked Tom and his idea was to use the black metal paper clips, as they will release and not damage the material if SHTF. He is nto sure if there is ample room for the covers to flex and move under load if sewn togehter. I coudl always add a 6 inch section of this same material between the 2 sections for safety/expansion.

    What about just throwing a jacket or down parka or vest into the UC?

    I should have placed the patrol bag or the down jacket in there, but thought I was too codl and aching to move so I toughed it out till morning.

    Hope you work it out, AA!
    Me too !
    thanks for all the help, everyone
    Cognito Ergo Sum

  4. #24
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    AA1PR:
    I have thought about thread injectig the seams to say within 18 inches from each end. I asked Tom and his idea was to use the black metal paper clips, as they will release and not damage the material if SHTF. He is nto sure if there is ample room for the covers to flex and move under load if sewn togehter. .
    Black metal paper clips? Not sure what that is or how dif from other paper clips, but it might be a good idea. But that is why I was planning on running shock cord from an added loop on one side of the OC, then running the shock cord under the hammock to the loop added to the other side of the OC. It should stretch and not add too much stress, hopefully. While still improving the ability of the OC to stay near the hammock and not gap up so easily.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  5. #25
    Senior Member ChrisH's Avatar
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    I believe this is what Tom was talking about...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #26
    New Member AA1PR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisH View Post
    I believe this is what Tom was talking about...
    exactly I should have specified better
    Cognito Ergo Sum

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AA1PR View Post
    exactly I should have specified better
    For future ref those are "binder clips"

  8. #28
    Senior Member kobold's Avatar
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    i bought and used the ss (no oc) about a dozen times and it protected me adequately. my very first hang was at 50f and it was great. but, i still got a wbbb + mount washington 3s convertible because:

    - the space blanket is too noisy. i dont like to disturb or be disturbed. also when i hang in the nature i really want to hear only that - the sounds of nature. sadly the supershelter without a space blanket is useless. i know there is a less noisy sb, but i suspect it won't be completely silent either, so why bother?

    - the ocf pad is too fragile. after only a dozen nights there are 1/3" holes in it and i don't even know what from? a point of a nail sticking out just a tiny bit from the wall of a wooden box made a 3" tear in the pad absolutely effortlessly while i was handling it.

    i am supposed to buy replacement pads. that is not going to happen.

    i would rather go for an spe i think.

    i don't know how enveloping (w/ a thread injector) the poor thing in ripstop nylon would work to reduce future damage.

    basically i stopped using the supershelter to prevent further damage to the pad until i figure out a better pad or a better protection for it.

    - the ocf pad is too bulky. if you have snakeskins you can't leave it in the hammock, but have to unthread the tie-outs on both sides, fold it and pack it away separately (and for this reason only, you need to thread them back again and to repeat this process every time you set up or tear down your camp, which is a boring thing to do after a while).
    if you leave it on, that will make the whole setup too bulky relative to down configs.
    i also find the whole "unpack the pad - unfold the pad - then roll it up again - then unroll again in the hammock" thing annoying.

    positives: cheap & effective. i would continue to play with it if i could find a robust, durable and effective replacement for the ocf pad that can fit in the snakeskins or at least stuffs better. ix or something similar??
    also the ss uc itself is more durable than any down uq and is capable to protect the hammock material well, so i would still use it for some very rugged very wet/muddy/humid conditions or when there is the possibility of going to ground.

    overall i think this system is better suited for car camping, where bulk is not an issue or for backpackers who don't mind it & repetitive tasks.
    Last edited by kobold; 03-17-2011 at 20:43.

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