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Thread: Amsteel Deal

  1. #21
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    I agree with your assessment, but I think you'll find it is a 290 foot spool, not 600'. I haven't measured it, but it is advertised as 290', and that seems about right when eyeballing it.
    Thank You - you are totally right.

    I got mixed up between the ebay samthane coated dyneema and the APS samthane coated dyneema. The APS stuff is a 600' spool.

    Even at 290' on the spool, that puts this stuff at $7.76 (including shipping) for 50' as opposed to the BPL AirCore at $40.00 + shipping for 50'

    I like deals like that.

    Thank you for correcting that AngrySparrow

  2. #22
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Lash-It

    Found out just what this "Amsteel" is.

    First it is not Samson Amsteel.

    Second it is made by Samson and is Dyneema.

    Third, it is their Lash-It product.

    It comes in sizes from 2.5 mm to 36 mm diameter. The 1,200 lb rating is the rating listed in the Samson Industrial Rope Catalog, page 42. The 1,200 lbs is listed as their "Average Strength". It is listed as on a 289' spool. Why 289' and not 290' or 300'??

    They have an almost identical product called Zing-It, only difference is the samthane coating is yellow. This product only comes in 1.75 mm and 2.2 mm diameters. Otherwise it has the same specs as the Lash-It. Zing-It is for arborists who use it as a throw line. The yellow is better seen in the tree.

    The Lash-It is designed for a marine environment.

    3 mm Amsteel is rated at 2,100 lbs average strength on page 32 of the same catalog with a minimum strength of 1,900 lbs. The 3 mm Amsteel is listed at 0.5 lbs/100'.

    The catalog doesn't list a weight of the 3 mm Lash-It. I weighed 30'. 1.65 oz, which comes to 0.055 oz/ft or 0.34 lbs/100'. Comparing this to 2.8 mm Spyderline. APS lists the 2.8 mm Spyderline at 1,200 lbs strength and 0.4 lbs/100'.

    So the 3 mm Lash-It compares favorably with the 2.8 mm Spyderline, equal strength rating and just slightly lighter. It's probably lighter since the Spyderline has the polyester sheath which adds weight over the dyneema/spectra core. The Samthane coating used on Amsteel and Lash-It is supposed to accomplish the same thing as the Spyderline polyester sheath.

    At $45.00 (including shipping) for 289' of Lash-It compared to the APS Spyderline at $.0.51/ft or $153.34 ( $147.39 + $5.95 shipping) for 289', the ebay Lash-it product is a better buy for price, equal strength and slightly lighter weight.

    Looked around trying to find the Lash-It product elsewhere for sale. Couldn't find it anywhere except APS. They only sell 600' spools of the 1.75 mm and the 2.2 mm. But then guessing from the prices for those, they would probably price 600' of the 3 mm at about $150 or $75.00 for 300'. So the ebay price of $40 for 289' still looks like a good deal.

    Cut some off and made 2 15' suspension lines and a ridge line for my DIY hammock. Hung the hammock.

    Observations:
    1. knots - knots hold very well. Also, much easier in this experiment to untie knots than with the Spyderline which had been on the hammock. I find with the Spyderline, it is VERY stiff and once a knot has been under load, the knot can be VERY hard to untie. I found the knots in the Lash-It product to hold well. I would judge as well as the Spyderline. There was a little slip initially (well not really slip, just the knot pulling tight). The same behavior I have observed in the past with the Spyderline. Tie a knot and load it and there is that initial tightening that will give you some slack. Used some guyline cord for Prussik knots on the ridge line. The Prussik knots held as well on the samthane coated Lash-It as on the polyester sheath of the Spyderline. I have coated dyneema from BPL. The Prussiks don't hold well on that coating at all.
    2. stretch - the Lash-It has more initial stretch than the Spyderline. For me, the Spyderline initially stretched a little and then held that length. The same with this Lash-It product, but the Lash-It product does have more initial stretch than the Spyderline. Didn't measure the amount of stretch, it just seemed like more. But then I could be remembering the Spyderline as less stretch since I have been using it for a long time and gotten all of the stretch out of it. In a year I will probably remember the Lash-It the same.
    3. handling - the Lash-It product is easier to handle. It is a lot more flexible than the Spyderline. I like the flexibility of the Lash-It product more than the stiffness of the Spyderline. This makes it far easier to figure 8 coil the Lash-It and secure it.
    4. kinks and twists - One thing I really, really dislike about Spyderline is the kinking and twisting. No matter what I do, any length of Spyderline over about 5' to 10' will twist and develop kinks. Trying to undo a figure 8 coil is really frustrating with Spyderline for me. If I do a straight loop coil, instead of the figure 8, undoing the coil is a mess. The figure 8 coil is better with the Spyderline, but not by much. The twisting will turn into kinks which catch the line and cause a real mess. Trying to coil (figure 8 or straight loop) a 15' to 20' or longer length of Spyderline takes 3 or 4 times longer than necessary because of the twisting of the line. I have to constantly untwist the line as I coil it or it becomes a twisted and then kinked mess. Same with uncoiling it. I like to straight coil rope by wrapping around my forearm - catching it with my thumb, my elbow bent to 90 degrees and then wrapping around my thumb and upper arm. Makes coiling a rope or electrical cord fast and easy. I can do the same thing with a figure 8 coil by altering the method of wrapping. I find that the Lash-It doesn't twist like the Spyderline. And since it doesn't have the polyester sheath it doesn't kink. The Lash-It is somewhat flat and will twist, but the twisting isn't a real mess as with the Spyderline.The polyester sheath on the Spyderline is what causes the kinks to develop from the twisting. The samthane coating on the Lash-It product makes it a dream to coil (straight loop or figure 8) compared to the Spyderline and uncoiling the Lash-It is far, far, far easier. This is probably also true of Amsteel with the same samthane coating. It is also probably true of other high tech ropes which are coated instead of covered with a sheath.


    Hung a length from 2 trees separated by about 16'. Used both large and small Figure 9s. Both worked very well with the Lash-IT.

    Overall, now that I really know what this stuff is and that the 1,200 lb rating is what Samson lists it as, I feel even more convinced that the ebay product is well worth the $40 + $5 shipping. Also, with 289' of the stuff I feel easier about cutting some off and using it. Whenever I buy stuff by the foot from APS or another place, I always buy what I need now + maybe 5%. Then I'm always dithering about cutting the stuff. I measure and re-measure and measure a third, fourth, fifth, sixth and more times before I finally cut it. Buying by the foot, I see money with every foot. With this stuff, 289' for $45, I feel suddenly rope rich and cut off a piece with a lot more peace of mind.
    Last edited by TiredFeet; 01-29-2008 at 17:00.

  3. #23
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredFeet View Post
    Found out just what this "Amsteel" is.
    I'm really glad you followed up on this. It's nice to have spec-confirmation about a product like cording, because it can give you more confidence in it's proper use.

    I'm also pleased that my observations about the line (in absence of actual product information) turned out to be right on.

    I will continue to use Spyderline in certain situations (suspension use, where I actually like that Spyderline is harder to untie), but for that purpose I use the 3.8mm Spyderline to which this Lash-It isn't analogous.

    Now that I've used the Lash-It for a longer period, I find that I like it more and more. I'll probably buy yet another spool of it at that price.
    “I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt.” - Cormac McCarthy

  4. #24
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    I'm really glad you followed up on this. It's nice to have spec-confirmation about a product like cording, because it can give you more confidence in it's proper use.

    I'm also pleased that my observations about the line (in absence of actual product information) turned out to be right on.

    I will continue to use Spyderline in certain situations (suspension use, where I actually like that Spyderline is harder to untie), but for that purpose I use the 3.8mm Spyderline to which this Lash-It isn't analogous.

    Now that I've used the Lash-It for a longer period, I find that I like it more and more. I'll probably buy yet another spool of it at that price.
    Yes - the price is really good and like you, the more I use the stuff the better I like it.

    I just have a hard time thinking of Dyneema anything as "twine". Every time I read the product description and they call it "twine", it gives me a little laugh. I'm use to twine being that cheap stuff that I can break with less than 5 lbs of pull.

    I have found another place besides APS that sells the Lash-It, Fisheries Supply sells the small diameter Lash-It and Zing-It. I haven't found anyplace else that sells the 3 mm and larger stuff though.

    I am going to start another thread on the 1.75 mm Lash-It for guyline cord.

  5. #25
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    I told somebody today that I use "twine" to hang my hammock.

    They have been hanging for a while.

    You should have seen the look on the face - total disbelief.

    TWINE to hang a hammock?

    The next thing they finally said - "You must be out of your mind".

    Finally explained to them.

  6. #26
    Senior Member headchange4u's Avatar
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    I was looking through the Ebay sellers inventory when I came across these 2 listings(same rope, different colors):

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Samso...mZ370011926036
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Samso...mZ370011926216

    Pretty impressive sounding stuff for such a small diameter. Who's gonna try it?

    You are buying a 3/16" x 50' piece of Samson Validator SK line. It's cover is finely braided polyester of ORANGE with RED Tracers. This is a discontinued color scheme. ..... It's blended Dyneema SK 75 and Vectran fibers give this line a super high test with very little creep or stretch. This line is spliceable using a class 2 Double braid splice. Test is an astounding 4820 lbs.....
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." -Terry Pratchett



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  7. #27
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by headchange4u View Post
    Pretty impressive sounding stuff for such a small diameter. Who's gonna try it?
    I nominate you for the test.
    “I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt.” - Cormac McCarthy

  8. #28
    Senior Member headchange4u's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    I nominate you for the test.
    I may be the guinea pig on this one. Since I wanna try out a garda hitch system I was looking for line with a little bit higher breaking strength than the 2.8mm spyder line that a lot of people use.

    I initially was looking at the AS-78 Samson from APS, 2900 lbs breaking strength for 3mm line. I got a piece of this line with my Warbonnet hammock and I like it, but the cost of $1.13 per foot eliminated that line.

    My next choice is Vectrus 12 Yale, rated at 2,000 lbs for the 3mm cord. It's only .47 per foot. The Vectrus is also available with a polyester jacket that would help with the slipping of the line when using the garda hitch.
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." -Terry Pratchett



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  9. #29
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    I am wanting some rope to use for my suspension system on my DIY. I believe I am going to be using the 1" webbing from Strapworks, along with the cinch buckles from onrope.

    I wanted to get some rope that I could tie to the buckle with the prussik knot, then with a larks head to the whipped hammock end, as shown somewhere on the site here.

    Would this rope be suitable to hild my 245-255 lb arse? Or is it going to be too thick to work around the buckle for the prussik? Would I be "overbuying" the rope, that is spending too much (more than .50 a foot from the looks of it) on this stuff?

    If this is a stupid question, please excuse it, but as HC4U & some of you others are well aware... I am pretty clueless when it comes to these materials!

  10. #30
    Senior Member headchange4u's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by traviso71 View Post
    I wanted to get some rope that I could tie to the buckle with the prussik knot, then with a larks head to the whipped hammock end, as shown somewhere on the site here.

    Would this rope be suitable to hild my 245-255 lb arse? Or is it going to be too thick to work around the buckle for the prussik? Would I be "overbuying" the rope, that is spending too much (more than .50 a foot from the looks of it) on this stuff?
    Pretty much any of the rope talked about in this thread would be fine for holding up your weight, no problem.

    I seriously doubt that the rope that I linked to a couple of posts above could be used to tie a prussik on the cinch buckles. I have the Amsteel 7/64 (3mm) wrapped around the cinch buckles with a prussik and it's just barley wide enough to accommodate the size. The 3/16 (~4.7mm) Ebay stuff above would be to fat, IMHO. It would work okay with rings.
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." -Terry Pratchett



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