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Thread: Another Guyline

  1. #11
    Syb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianWillan View Post
    That's a pretty slick system. Adding a shock cord loop at the tarp tie out gives you the self tensioning system that we all like to use on nylon tarps. The only downside I see to this system is that one can't easily adjust the guyline from under the tarp when it is raining out.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Yeah, the self-tensioning is the issue right now and apparently, I've given silentorpheus a great case of OCD because of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by silentorpheus View Post
    A variant of this is what I use, and allows for adjusting tension from under the tarp. Plus it gets you to learn a new splice.

    Instead of splicing a loop on the tarp end of your guyline and using that to make your prussik, instead make yourself a small continuous loop to use as your prussik loop. You can then either attach it to your tarp in the exact same way, by larksheading it on and then forming the prussik around the toggle (that's a rather ingenious way of getting the prussik around a line, by the way, with the passing through the center of the hollow toggle and all that) or you can form the prussik knot around the guyline, and then larkshead it onto the tarp by passing the whole line, prussik and all, through the loop.

    In the end, what you end up with is the prussik right up close to the tarp d-ring or grommet, and you pull the guyline to tension, which can be done from under the tarp without having to reach out much. This eliminates all the slack being at the stake end of the guyline, and puts it at the tarp connection point, at which point you can coil it up and tuck it in the prussik loop if it bothers you to have it dangling.

    It's the way the whoopieslings.com guylines work, and can be seen used and attached in this review Grizz did of them.
    That method makes total sense. Can't believe that is one of the Grizz vids I haven't watched. What I like about the system I described is that when in use with a Spinn or other tarp that doesn't stretch, this system is setup once and then you don't touch it. The self-tensioning is my main concern at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentorpheus View Post
    The way you do them looks like it works just as well, and by the looks of it your splicing skills have come along since the winter hang! Nice job, Syb.
    Thanks! Yes, playing with Zing-It and amsteel is way too addicting.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentorpheus View Post
    Edit: I reread your original post, and saw you talking about adding a tensioner to this. By having the marlin spike hitch to take up slack at the stake end, and the guyline prussiked (is that a word even? ) to itself at the tarp connection end, likely the only place to add a tensioning device would be the middle of the line. Because your system allows for shortening the line at either end, the 'center' of the guyline is variable, and thus choosing the proper placement for the tensioner may eventually become problematic. For example, if the tensioner is at one end, you can effectively shorten the guyline all the way from the other end without dealing with making things even. If it's in the center, the shortest you can ever make your guylines is the if make your marlinspike hitch as close to the tensioner as possible, and then pull the prussik out all the way to the other side of the tensioner - but you can never eliminate the distance of the loop the prussiked end creates. With using a continuous loop prussik and putting the tensioner at the stake end, for example, this allows you, if ever needed, to shorten your guyline to effectively the length of the tensioner and no more. Did that make any sense?
    That does make sense and the limitations are just as you describe. I saw Grizz reverse the guyline and have about 6" or 8" from tarp to stake. That is very slick.


    Quote Originally Posted by silentorpheus View Post
    Okay, now you've done it Syb. It's after midnight, and instead of thinking about bed you've got me pulling out pieces of rope and measuring and thinking about splices and such
    I guess I have a gift!

    Quote Originally Posted by silentorpheus View Post
    I'm sure there's a mathematical equation to represent what I'm talking about, but heck if I know what it is. Thinking more about what I was just saying about minimum length possible with your setup, I tested something. When you form an adjustable loop with a piece of line that has a eye on the end, either by prussiking to itself, or even by pulling a bight of the line through the eye like you were going to larkshead it onto something, that effectively cuts the adjustment possibility in half, because the line pulled through becomes part of the larger loop being formed.

    So, for example, if we look at the last picture you posted, it looks like the line pulled through the grommet of your tarp and prussiked to itself forms about an 8 inch loop, as shown. Now, for every one inch of slack that you take up through that prussik, it only shortens the guyline by .5 inches. Take up 6 inches of slack, only makes the total length 3 inches shorter, etc. So if you have a 8 foot guyline, you can only ever shorten it to 4 feet minimum using the prussik adjustment, essentially making the line one giant loop. By taking up the slack on the stake end like you suggest, you can get that distance much shorter, but the fine tuning using the prussiked tarp end of the guyline is not as efficient at shorter distances.

    I guess in the end what you've essentially done is create a spliced, no knot version of a taut-line hitch. Which is perfectly usable and functional. But you did ask for feedback, which made me start to get overly analytical and start rambling, and in the end everything I babbled about can be summed up with "looks good, the only downside I see is that you limit your minimum length" Everything else is just the late night circuitous meanderings of my mind, and my somewhat OCD need to see a thought process through to the end once I start.
    You gotta love OCD! We all have our moments. Seriously, thank you for that feedback silent. One of the many reasons I love this forum is for the exploration of ideas and members to chime in about their experiences and expertise.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowAlpha View Post
    Great explanation/pics - thanks for sharing

    So the marlin spike hitch stays tight & you adjust with prussik?
    Anytime my former NJ brethren. Yes, the marlin spike hitch stays tight. When you drive the stake in the MSH slides up to the loop that is fed through the stake. Here it can't go any further and when you drive the stake all the way down with only the head of the stake (in my case, the head of the gutter spike) above the earth, it holds it securely.
    Syb
    Enjoy the elevation

  2. #12
    Herder of Cats OutandBack's Avatar
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    Hi Syb, I love the cleanness and simplicity of your tarp tieouts was just wondering if the prussic's are holding in a good wind?
    I had prussic's on my tarp, not as nice as yours, but found they would not hold in big gusts hitting the tarp broadside. Maybe it was the line I was using? I have not tried zing-it or amsteel for tieouts.

  3. #13
    Syb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutandBack View Post
    Hi Syb, I love the cleanness and simplicity of your tarp tieouts was just wondering if the prussic's are holding in a good wind?
    I had prussic's on my tarp, not as nice as yours, but found they would not hold in big gusts hitting the tarp broadside. Maybe it was the line I was using? I have not tried zing-it or amsteel for tieouts.
    So far so good. I was considering making longer loops so I could get another wrap out of the Zing-it. It starts off a little slippery but once you move the prussik around a little it grabs pretty well. Zing-it for tarp tieouts yes, but not amsteel. Zing-it itself is pretty darn strong and you want the weaker part of your setup to the lines. Much easier to replace a line than a torn tarp. Don't use amsteel on tarp tieouts. Your tarp will be ripped to shreds and the amsteel will be completely in tact.
    Syb
    Enjoy the elevation

  4. #14
    Herder of Cats OutandBack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syb View Post
    So far so good. I was considering making longer loops so I could get another wrap out of the Zing-it. It starts off a little slippery but once you move the prussik around a little it grabs pretty well. Zing-it for tarp tieouts yes, but not amsteel. Zing-it itself is pretty darn strong and you want the weaker part of your setup to the lines. Much easier to replace a line than a torn tarp. Don't use amsteel on tarp tieouts. Your tarp will be ripped to shreds and the amsteel will be completely in tact.
    Thanks I need to get smart on the different types of line.

    I was using something I bought at REI. It's about 1/8" in dia. It had a woven rough surface, I thought it would grab but didn't. I even tried 5 wraps on the prussic loops and finely a slippery half hitch to try and lock them down. I ended up going back to the niteze with figure 9's still not happy. The firure 9's are hard to adjust up and down the line and you can lose them. With no tension they can come loose and fall off the line.

    What diameter of zing-it do you recommend? I hope I'm not diverting your topic don't mean to. Maybe I should be talking to you via PM.

    Last edited by OutandBack; 03-08-2011 at 16:19.

  5. #15
    Syb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutandBack View Post
    Thanks I need to get smart on the different types of line.

    I was using something I bought at REI. It's about 1/8" in dia. It had a woven rough surface, I thought it would grab but didn't. I even tried 5 wraps on the prussic loops and finely a slippery half hitch to try and lock them down. I ended up going back to the niteze with figure 9's still not happy. The firure 9's are hard to adjust up and down the line and you can lose them. With no tension they can come loose and fall off the line.

    What diameter of zing-it do you recommend?
    I think there are variations of 1.75mm (what I have) and 2.2mm. Check out the review Grizz did that silentorpheus mentioned. That is a very cool system. Mine (Dylan's) lacks the tensioners but again, depending on your tarp, you may not need it.
    Syb
    Enjoy the elevation

  6. #16
    Dylan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syb View Post
    Thank Dylan for this one, I just did some goofy pics. As soon I saw it I had to experiment with it. Not sure if it was Dylan's original idea or not but he's the man!
    Perfect execution . You got it exactly. Thanks for posting the great photos. The pen/tube is a great improvement; I threaded my prussiks by hand.

    With this setup, I'm mainly determining my guyline length with the marlinspike hitch. The prussiks are mainly there to tweak it, so I don't have to replant the stake if I'm not happy with my tension.
    - Dylan

    “You are too concerned about what was and what will be. There is a saying: yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the 'present.'”
    ― Master Oogway

  7. #17
    Senior Member russmay's Avatar
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    I don't mean to sound all MR negativity, but it seems like a bit over kill to just to stake out a tarp. Especially when you hands and fingers are cold.
    "The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress, and grows brave by reflection."
    Thomas Paine

  8. #18
    Syb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russmay View Post
    I don't mean to sound all MR negativity, but it seems like a bit over kill to just to stake out a tarp. Especially when you hands and fingers are cold.
    No negativity at all . It is a little bit of work on the front end but less fussing out in the field. No knots to worry about in any temps. Also, it's fun just to mess with your gear and tweak the systems. Like always, it's all personal preference. Some people drive a Chevy, others drive a Toyota.
    Syb
    Enjoy the elevation

  9. #19
    Senior Member Roadrunnr72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syb View Post
    No negativity at all . It is a little bit of work on the front end but less fussing out in the field. No knots to worry about in any temps. Also, it's fun just to mess with your gear and tweak the systems. Like always, it's all personal preference. Some people drive a Chevy, others drive a Toyota.
    What about a Dodge, some of use drive a Dodge?
    Looks cool Syb. I have always heard that a prusik will slip if used on the same size line. You have not experienced this? I, personally, just have a bowline on 1 end with a larkshead to the tarp, the other around the stake and use a figure 9. Has held up fine and quick and easy to use.
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  10. #20
    Syb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunnr72 View Post
    What about a Dodge, some of use drive a Dodge?
    Looks cool Syb. I have always heard that a prusik will slip if used on the same size line. You have not experienced this? I, personally, just have a bowline on 1 end with a larkshead to the tarp, the other around the stake and use a figure 9. Has held up fine and quick and easy to use.
    Yeah, I'd love to have me one of those Ram 2500's but for now, I'll put around in my Toyota.
    An extra wrap of the prussik seems to do the trick. Also, I run the prussik up and down the area where it will hold a few times while it's tight to (in my mind at least) ensure a good grip. The Zing-It is pretty resistant to abrasion.
    Syb
    Enjoy the elevation

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