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  1. #1
    Senior Member Preacha Man's Avatar
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    Questions and concerns Regarding PW sewing.

    Tim (Slowhike) brought it to my attention that some of you may be worried that we may be going against copyright policies and/or infringing on other manufacturers rights. Here is a copy of what Tim wrote to me.

    "sewing projects...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    hey my friend, just wanted to touch base w/ you guys on something before anyone decides to say something about it in a less friendly way.

    one HF member PMed me expressing a little concern that someone mite become unhappy if you guys were making anything that was a copy of what someone else had designed with out permission.
    especially if you were making a profit off it.

    my original thoughts were that your wife's offer to sew would help fill a void were some weren't willing to get into sewing and/or didn't have enough cash to buy some of the more expensive products being offered by companies.
    and i still think that would be a great thing.

    the only areas of concern i can think of right now are...
    1)... maybe the cat tarps.
    2)... there may have been mention of making a hennessy clone (but i'm not sure).

    the ray way kit is being purchased from the source & you are just providing a sewing service for a fee. i see absolutely no thing wrong w/ that.

    stuff sacks, etc should be no concern to anyone.

    i don't think quilts shouldn't be a problem as long as you aren't copying a design being sold by someone else or using their name.

    another thing mentioned was that if someone wasn't happy w/ a material, workmanship, or whatever, there could be hurt feelings over how it was handled since there are no company policies laid out like other makers have.

    i just wanted to bring this to your attention before anyone else does.

    i think a good way to make sure everything is good would be to talk about it on a new thread (maybe in the "hammock DIY" forum.
    that way HF members (including manufacturers of course) would be able to give their opinions.

    feel free to copy & paste this PM as a starter if you like.

    i & others here really like you guys & appreciate your contributions here, so i'm just trying to diffuse what could turn into a less than desirable situation<g>. ...tim"

    We never intended to hurt feelings, or steal someone elses designs, we just wanted to offer a sewing service. Most of what me make are just Cat Tarps. I didn't know that someone held a design patent on these. I know that Speers, MacCat, and JRB sell them, but is there something about that their designs that make them off limits? For the tarps we just sew 2 pieces of sil together, and then figure out what looks like a good curve. I looked at their designs and ours are different from all 3. For quilts we just sandwich insulation between 2 pieces of material.

    At first I did say that we would sew a Claytor Clone, but then Stoikurt brought it to our attention that we would be going against Tom's design, so we abandoned it (plus, he can make it sheaper than we can). Most of what people have wanted from us suit their needs, and have differences from anything that they can buy. Please give your 2 cents, because the last thing we wanted was to offend anyone, or steal designs from people who have spent a lot of time and money devoloping them.

    Also, If anyone ever has us do work for them and is dissatisfied, please let us know. WE WILL ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT!! If that means giving money back, or paying for shipping so that we can fix it, whatever. We sold a tarp that we had sewed the guy line reinforcements on different sides, and we sold it for basically the price of materials. The person we sold it to, already knew before hand that it had cosmetic flaws. We want to make people happy.

    Thank you,
    Dwight
    Psalm 19:1-3 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard."

  2. #2
    slowhike's Avatar
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    i don't think anyone has thought bad of what you guys are doing. in fact, i think it's a great service that yall are wanting to provide for HF members.
    the person that PMed me seemed to be concerned as much about you guys (preacha man & preacher'swife) as anyone that mite feel someone was using their design for profit.

    i'm not sure how to answer your question about the Speer, JRB, McCat, Warbonnet tarps.
    i don't think any of them have a patent, but at the same time we would want to be careful to respect their work.
    i don't know if they would even have a concern about someone making an occasional tarp similar to theirs to sell.

    making a HH clone on the other hand might cause you problems w/ tom

    it's not my intention (or anyone else's i don't think) to cause a stink. but it's a good idea to go ahead & talk about it & make sure every thing's cool.

    again, i appreciate you guys & your contribution to this community! ...tim
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Preacha Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowhike View Post
    i don't think any of them have a patent, but at the same time we would want to be careful to respect their work.
    Absolutely, They all do great work, and we would never want to take anything away from them!

    Quote Originally Posted by slowhike View Post
    making a HH clone on the other hand might cause you problems w/ tom
    I think that we are going to stay away from making hammocks for people. They are easy to make, and once people make their own, then they can have the joy of making them fit their personal needs.

    thanks again,
    Dwight
    Psalm 19:1-3 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard."

  4. #4
    Mule's Avatar
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    Sometimes I have mentioned a Claytor Clone, but it doesn't even lool like a Claytor. No bug net, no sleeves on the ends. The only thing is it's double bottomed and narrower than most. It's just taking what you like and doing it a little different. As long as that is done, I don't see the problem. My suggestion is to be completely open about it with the other manufacturers. Perhaps they would see that some want these features and THEY could fill the gap themselves. Just my opinion.
    You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
    Buddha.

  5. #5
    PM, nobody owns the rights to cat tarps, seems like the manufactuer's all are making an effort to make signifigantly different designs than eachother, i could see someone getting upset only if it was almost an exact copy, in fact i believe taking someone elses design and using it as a template, basically an exact copy is against the law even if the idea wasn't patented, i could be wrong though.

    if it's not patented, just try not to tread too closely to someone's idea, and you should be ok,

    if it is patented, read the claims of the patent, and don't infringe on any of them, unless you're willing to argue your reason why in court.

    and don't refer to anything as a such and such clone, it needs to be your unique design.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Preacha Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    PM, nobody owns the rights to cat tarps, seems like the manufactuer's all are making an effort to make signifigantly different designs than eachother, i could see someone getting upset only if it was almost an exact copy, in fact i believe taking someone elses design and using it as a template, basically an exact copy is against the law even if the idea wasn't patented, i could be wrong though.

    if it's not patented, just try not to tread too closely to someone's idea, and you should be ok,

    if it is patented, read the claims of the patent, and don't infringe on any of them, unless you're willing to argue your reason why in court.

    and don't refer to anything as a such and such clone, it needs to be your design.
    Thank you so much. I designed the Sanctuary Tarp all by myself. I actually had to go and look at other tarps online when this thread started to make sure that it was different. I have also designed a 12'X10' cat tarp that is the same as the Sanctuary but with four tie outs on each side, I call it the Cathedral. Tarps and synthetic quilts will be our main thing, as well as special sewing work.
    Psalm 19:1-3 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard."

  7. #7
    Dutch's Avatar
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    From what I have seen and read I don't see anything wrong with you two making tarps. If you really wanted to be up front about it you could contact JRB, Speer, or Maccat and ask if your design is an infringment on any patents they hold. I think you were selling them for $60 and that is a better deal than anything else I have seen. I can only imagine that there is at least $35 worth of materials going into each one. So profit doesn't seem to be your goal. I think it is great what you are doing and I bet you get enjoyment from it like I do when I make gear. Obviously making a claymore clone would not be right and you already realized that. Quilts have to be OK unless you copied the no snivling, Potomic, or the snugfit. From what I see other gear suppliers should hire you to make their stuff and resell them under their name.
    Last edited by Dutch; 02-02-2008 at 22:28.
    Peace Dutch
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  8. #8
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacha Man View Post
    ...tarps and synthetic quilts will be our main thing, as well as special sewing work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Quilts have to be OK unless you copied the no snivling, Potomic, or the snugfit.
    It's really good that someone is producing synthetic underquilts for sale again. Since BlackBishop stopped making the Potomacs, there hasn't been anyone maing a synthetic UQ that I'm aware of.

    Preacha Man, you and your wife should actually try contacting Patrick of KickAssQuilts and BlackBishop. They might actually sanction you to start producing that design if you liked, since they aren't making them presently. Just an idea..
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Preacha Man View Post
    Thank you so much. I designed the Sanctuary Tarp all by myself.

    I have also designed a 12'X10' cat tarp that is the same as the Sanctuary but with four tie outs on each side, I call it the Cathedral. Tarps and synthetic quilts will be our main thing, as well as special sewing work.
    is this the sanctuary tarp?

    http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...&imageuser=478

    it looks pretty unique, there's at least 2 companies with the 3-ties-per-side tarp, and it doesn't look like a copy of either.

    got pics of the cathedral?
    Last edited by warbonnetguy; 02-02-2008 at 19:19.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Preacha Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    is this the sanctuary tarp?

    http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...&imageuser=478

    it looks pretty unique, there's at least 2 companies with the 3-ties-per-side tarp, and it doesn't look like a copy of either.

    got pics of the cathedral?
    Kind of, except the seam goes down the ridgeline, instead of the sides, we haven't put a new pic up yet because we wanted to make sure that everything was ok.

    Amanda hasn't sewn the first Cathedral yet. It is mine in OD green
    It has four tie outs like the Speer's winter tarp, but the cat curves are more pronounced. The four tie outs are evenly spaced, and the same distance from the ridgeline. It is 10'X12', but I will still contact Ed and see what he thinks before I put one up for sale. If Ed thinks this is too close to his winter tarp then I will make mine how I want it, and for those for sale will have 3 tie outs lke the Sanctuary.

    Sparrow, Thanks for the idea about contacting Patrick and BlackBishop. I can't get the site to pop up right now, but that happens every now and then. I really like the design of the potomac, but have never made one, mine have all been rectangular.
    Psalm 19:1-3 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard."

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