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  1. #1
    Senior Member wisenber's Avatar
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    Diff cut double layer, wool, Kephart and taxes

    OK, this is what happens when the IRS tells me that I need to revisit filing years 2006-2009. I immediately try to fill my head with anything but!
    That in turn led me to reading some Horace Kephart (Believe it or not he was mentioning hammocks as far back as 1916!) He also discussed "bedrolls" at great length in his two volume Camping and Woodcraft book. He goes over why cotton is bad and the merits of down, but he also speaks highly of wool batting for insulation in a bedroll as it handles compressing and decompressing well.

    Soooooooooo. Tangent number four leads to tangent number five, and I begin wondering about using wool batting to insulate a hammock (Since this is after all a hammock forum and not a tax forum.) That lead me to wonder aloud if anyone had ever tried to make a differentially cut double layered hammock? Sure, I would lose the added strength of the second layer, BUT I would also have a fairly fixed gap between layer one and layer two to use.....wait for it..wool batting.

    While I am not sure about the practical use of such a work, I could not help but ponder how warm three inches of wool batting would be.
    Some will chime in "But Wisenber isn't wool batting heavy and doesn't it smell when it gets wet?" Well, I cannot win on the weight part of the question, but I did see where treated wool that has the lanolin removed can have lanolin readded to make the wool pretty darned water resistant -more so than down or any synthetic presently on the market. I've read where folks using "natural" diapers for their kids use wool on the outside then treat the wool with lanolin to prevent leakage. If lanolin will stop that, surely it would be a pretty robust treatment to prevent the batting of absorbing moisture. (Horace Kephart swore by it for his wool garments.)

    So ponder if you will a diff cut gathered end double layer hammock. If the bottom layer were longer, would it make for a relatively fixed gap between the layers?
    Then, what do you think of putting a thick layer of wool batting between those two layers if the gap worked out?

    I did not know which sub forum this applied to most, so I thought I'd start with DIY. ( Moderators, feel free to move this in another section if needed, or help me with three years' worth of taxes.)

  2. #2
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    You have several interesting concepts to explore here. Sadly, none of them will help with the IRS.

    The closest thing I've seen anywhere to the diff-cut double layer would be some of the earlier insulated hammock designs. Jeff made four (1, 2, 3, 4) among others. And I think WV has a couple of similar designs also. Those have some tips about setting baffles.

    Have you researched any R value rating for batting? How is the lanolin applied?
    “I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt.” - Cormac McCarthy

  3. #3
    Senior Member wisenber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    You have several interesting concepts to explore here. Sadly, none of them will help with the IRS.



    Have you researched any R value rating for batting? How is the lanolin applied?
    The sources I read about wool batting merely mentioned that a quilt or comforter made of wool batting is far warmer than a densely woven wool blanket as the batting traps more air than a tight weave.
    Only having a thick fisherman's sweater (without the lanolin removed) as a reference, I would take a SWAG and say that similar a similar thickness of wool batting would equate if not exceed down. Down will of course weigh MUCH less.

    Kephart mentioned using a mixture of gasoline/benzine as a solvent with anhydrous lanolin. Not much caring for that approach, I did find some nondetergent soaps that have lanolin in them which would be much easier than melting the anhydrous lanolin.

    From what I have seen, a 98X58X3 piece of wool batting can be had for 30 bucks and weighs about 3 pounds.

  4. #4
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    Sounds interesting. The thing I learned on my first insulated hammock was that the top layer of fabric stretches, which complicates sizing the bottom layer - it needs to be bigger than you think. Baffles are good to maintain a consistent distance between layers, provided the bottom layer is big enough.

    I wonder if wool would be light enough for a summer hammock - maybe 1/2" of loft.

  5. #5
    Senior Member wisenber's Avatar
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    I have seen JJ and WV's designs before. Most of those seem to revolve around adding an actual quilt or other insulation to the hammock body. I was actually wondering if say the top was 120" and the bottom was 126" that a space might exist to insert and remove the batting "at will" so to speak. The batting would just be held in a light cheese cloth or bugnet fabric.

    While batting is supposed to handle compression and decompression well since it is used in mattress covers and furniture, I would envision rolling the stuffed hammock into a bedroll of sorts when actually camping with it. At home, I'd store the hammock and batting separately.

  6. #6
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    The warmest gloves I have are made of possum down and merino wool. Maybe there are wool knit fabrics that have better insulating properties than woven wool.

  7. #7
    Senior Member wisenber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Sounds interesting. The thing I learned on my first insulated hammock was that the top layer of fabric stretches, which complicates sizing the bottom layer - it needs to be bigger than you think. Baffles are good to maintain a consistent distance between layers, provided the bottom layer is big enough.

    I wonder if wool would be light enough for a summer hammock - maybe 1/2" of loft.
    At 48 ounces for a 3" thick piece, it may very well be light enough for Winter as well.
    I'm not really seeing baffles in my concoction just yet, as I would like to have the ability to slide the batting out for storage and maintenance without disassembling the whole stitch work.

  8. #8
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisenber View Post
    I would envision rolling the stuffed hammock into a bedroll of sorts when actually camping with it. At home, I'd store the hammock and batting separately.
    Ah, I didn't catch on to that.

    I think it's an interesting idea for, perhaps, long-term winter camping in a damp environment. The treated batting should resist moisture over time better than down might if left setup for longer periods of time (like a deer camp, or similar).

    I would suggest making the bottom layer wider, in addition to longer, if possible.

    Hope to see this thread develop further.
    “I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt.” - Cormac McCarthy

  9. #9
    Senior Member wisenber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    The warmest gloves I have are made of possum down and merino wool. Maybe there are wool knit fabrics that have better insulating properties than woven wool.
    Kephart says "Similarly, a three-pound comforter filled with lamb's wool batting is as warm as a five-pound all-wool blanket, because it holds more dead air. Down filling is still warmer than wool, being fluffier, and its elasticity keeps it so — it does not mat from pressure."

    That makes me think that batting insulates better than knitted fabric....if you're not trying to repel rain or wind.

  10. #10
    Senior Member wisenber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    Ah, I didn't catch on to that.

    I think it's an interesting idea for, perhaps, long-term winter camping in a damp environment. The treated batting should resist moisture over time better than down might if left setup for longer periods of time (like a deer camp, or similar).

    I would suggest making the bottom layer wider, in addition to longer, if possible.

    Hope to see this thread develop further.
    Treated wool should also release what moisture it has accumulated just with body heat.
    I don't know if I'd want to bother using more than a 58" wide piece. Were that the case, I'd probably have more width on the top and bottom than needed. I don't know, but I think the length would be the more critical variable in getting the hammock layers to separate enough.

    If the top stretches as WV indicated, perhaps a polyester top would reduce the expansion compared to nylon?

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