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  1. #21
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Got too wondering about this slippage on the Figure 9s.

    Noticed that the slippage seems to occur when the line around the tree is pulled slack because of the line catching on the bark.

    Took out some small diameter guy line and a small Figure 9 and set it up and then secured the line around the tree so that it wouldn't pull around the tree like when it catches on the bark.

    Thus, when I pull the free end to pull the line from the load tight, the line from the Figure 9 to the tree slackens and the Figure 9 slips.


    Then I remembered the Hitchcraft directions for their rope tie.

    You are supposed to give the line a twist when anchoring on the rope tie. Their animation doesn't show the twist, but the printed directions I got with the rope tie does specify the twist. (Edit: looked at the hitchcraft site again and the animation, the animation does show the twist)

    Did some experiments using the twist on the Figure 9 when securing the line through the "eye" and around the Figure 9 stem. There are 2 ways to execute the twist on the Figure 9 (on the Hitchcraft rope tie it doesn't make any difference):

    1. load line on the bottom
    2. load line on top


    where by load line I mean the line coming from the tarp or whatever you are trying to secure.

    With the first method, the line still slips.

    With the second method, the line doesn't slip. This makes sense since for the second method the load line sits on top of the line and secures it in place. It doesn't do that for the first method, hence the slip.

    So, by simply introducing the twist when anchoring the line through "eye" of the Figure 9, the slippage problem can probably be eliminated.
    Last edited by TiredFeet; 02-26-2008 at 19:12. Reason: correction on Hitchcraft twist

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredFeet View Post
    Got too wondering about this slippage on the Figure 9s.

    Noticed that the slippage seems to occur when the line around the tree is pulled slack because of the line catching on the bark.

    Took out some small diameter guy line and a small Figure 9 and set it up and then secured the line around the tree so that it wouldn't pull around the tree like when it catches on the bark.

    Thus, when I pull the free end to pull the line from the load tight, the line from the Figure 9 to the tree slackens and the Figure 9 slips.


    Then I remembered the Hitchcraft directions for their rope tie.

    You are supposed to give the line a twist when anchoring on the rope tie. Their animation doesn't show the twist, but the printed directions I got with the rope tie does specify the twist. (Edit: looked at the hitchcraft site again and the animation, the animation does show the twist)

    Did some experiments using the twist on the Figure 9 when securing the line through the "eye" and around the Figure 9 stem. There are 2 ways to execute the twist on the Figure 9 (on the Hitchcraft rope tie it doesn't make any difference):

    1. load line on the bottom
    2. load line on top


    where by load line I mean the line coming from the tarp or whatever you are trying to secure.

    With the first method, the line still slips.

    With the second method, the line doesn't slip. This makes sense since for the second method the load line sits on top of the line and secures it in place. It doesn't do that for the first method, hence the slip.

    So, by simply introducing the twist when anchoring the line through "eye" of the Figure 9, the slippage problem can probably be eliminated.
    TiredFeet, that's a neat trick.

    I am pretty certain now that the slippage I had was due to the line catching on the bark, as you observed also. The problem I see with this is not so much the Figure 9, because I can always find a way to secure the line using multiple turns and/or a quick release knot at the end, or the twist as you suggest. The bigger problem is that there is no guarantee that the rope keeps catching. Since there is slack on one of the lines, a wind gust, or me putting in that final stake, can give the load line just enough of a pull to overcome the friction on the tree, and the tarp will suddenly slacken. I think that is what happened to me that night out in the rain. With the twist, or a knot, at least the Figure 9 will not start slipping, but the tarp still needs to be tightened again.

  3. #23
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneiderlein View Post
    TiredFeet, that's a neat trick.

    I am pretty certain now that the slippage I had was due to the line catching on the bark, as you observed also. The problem I see with this is not so much the Figure 9, because I can always find a way to secure the line using multiple turns and/or a quick release knot at the end, or the twist as you suggest. The bigger problem is that there is no guarantee that the rope keeps catching. Since there is slack on one of the lines, a wind gust, or me putting in that final stake, can give the load line just enough of a pull to overcome the friction on the tree, and the tarp will suddenly slacken. I think that is what happened to me that night out in the rain. With the twist, or a knot, at least the Figure 9 will not start slipping, but the tarp still needs to be tightened again.
    Yes you are right. If the line suddenly releases, all of the slack is now going to loosen the tightened line and it will have to be retightened.

    I think I'll stick to the coated dyneema. It just slides right over the bark. Little or no chance of it catching and raising the problem. More expensive than the Mason line, but now that I have the 600' spool from APS, the cost came down a whole lot. Still more expensive than Mason line, but tangles aren't a problem either.

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