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  1. #1
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Question for pad users

    During some of my seemingly endless experimentation, I have been trying out my Speer SPE and some pads. I have had this as a backup for over a year, but have never really used it. Last year on my Olympic mountain trip, at the last minute I nearly ditched my SuperShelter in favor of just the SPE and pads. On the theory that I was going to carry at least a minimal pad anyway in case I had to go to ground. So in a last-minute fit of ounce saving, I thought "well why don't I just take pads only?". Saving the weight of the SuperShelter. But at the last minute, after trying to compare things in the hot Mississippi August Sun, I decided there was still too much comfort in favor of the SuperShelter versus just pads. So I took both.

    But lately I've been playing with the SPE some more, mainly because I've been using my top loading Speer hammock while testing the Peapod. So it just seemed an easy matter to drop the SPE and pad into the Speer and sit down on top of it, and then lie down. Then I decided to go ahead and try it without the Peapod, using various thickness of pads. It works pretty good. And it is easier to manage than with my bottom loading Hennessy hammock, although it seems more user friendly than I remembered from last summer even in the Hennessy. And so far anyway, I just don't seem to have any sweat issues. And after further experimentation, it really seems pretty comfortable -- just not that much of a change from the hammock by itself. As long as you don't count a bit of inconvenience from trying to get positioned on the pad in the first place, especially when using the Hennessy. But all of that seems to be improving with practice anyway. As for the comfort level, I'm wondering what I thought was the big difference last year when I decided I wouldn't be happy with the pads by themselves. Maybe it had something to do with how darn hot it was. I don't know, it just seems as though the difference is not as great as I thought it was at that time.

    I did a little testing recently, for short periods of time. With a Ridgerest only, I would say that it was just barely okay at 32°. So if I had been out overnight for a full eight hours, it might have proved a little inadequate at that temperature. But that would match Speers "some observed temperatures with close cell pads", where I believe he has a 5/8" pad listed at 37°. But I've also read from other people that a 5/8" pad like a Ridgerest might not be quite as warm as a 5/8" pad that does not have the ridges in it. Anyway, it looks like it will be fine for me in the mid 30s, and maybe okay at 32°. Probably not okay below that temperature, at least not for a long night. But of course that's not a problem, because I think I remember last winter I did 18° with the same Ridgerest plus a Thermarest UltraLite 1-inch thick three-quarter length all inside the SPE. And I remember being very warm under those conditions, but I need to look up my test on that combo.

    But here's my question. Though we are all aware of the many ways in which a pad decreases comfort in a hammock for a lot of people, is it possible that the pad actually increases comfort in some ways? I just wondered what the frequent pad users thought regarding this question. For one thing, the pad seems to give me somewhat of a flatter sleeping surface. And the pad inside the SPE with the wings pushing outward on the Hennessy sides gives me a sensation of more openness inside the hammock, solving any net related problems. And it seems to me that whether in the Hennessy or in the Speer, I am actually able to lie on my side a little better than without the pads. I'm assuming this is because of the aforementioned "flatter sleeping surface" -- or so it seems. I wouldn't say it was a big difference, but the difference seems to be there.

    Has anybody else noticed anything like this, or am I just hallucinating again?
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 02-19-2008 at 12:40.

  2. #2
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    PS:

    Re: being warm at 32° with just the Ridgerest, and side comfort. I did notice that when I turned on my side, I quickly noticed a small cold spot on my hip at the lowest point. I suppose this would be because I had the same amount of body weight at the low point, but now with the thinner profile- that is, less body width resting on the pad compared to being on my back, I now had more pounds per square inch pressing on the pad? Therefore managing to compress it a bit more, allowing the cold to be felt through the pad?

    Whatever the cause, the cold spot went away as soon as I went back on my back. It was not so bad that I would not have been able to put up with it for a while, mainly because it was in such a small spot. But it might have become more of an issue with a slightly thinner pad. Also, someone who always sleeps on their side might have more of a problem as the night wears on. So it might be that dedicated side sleepers need a bit more pad.

  3. #3
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    Bill,

    I found that the type of pad and the thickness of closed cell pads have an effect on comfort. I thought the Ridgerest was the most comfortable closed cell foam pad to have against my back when I have thick pads or a stack of pads and when I stacked ccf pads that was the one I put on top. Inflated pads might be more comfortable than just the hammock since they add cushioning. But, you do have to get on them and stay on them. If you squirm or move around you have deal with staying on them.

    These ccf pads are vapor barriers unless you perforate them so you have to deal with insensible and sensible perspiration more carefully than you have to with breathable insulation. I've always felt that you prefer more breathability in your insulation in still air where you are close to overheating with the amount of insulation you have and that you prefer less breathability in your insulation in moving air where you are close to getting chilled with the amount of insulation you have. Hopefully we are usually somewhere between those two extremes and then it approaches six of one versus half a dozen of the other.
    Youngblood AT2000

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bug-Bait's Avatar
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    Will an Exped Dam work with the SPE or is it too thick?

  5. #5
    Senior Member fin's Avatar
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    I think everyone experiments with pads and cold, and everyone has different results with comfort. In warm weather, I will use a light closed cell pad or a piece of "memory foam" inside my Clark NA to "push out the sides" near my head and for extra comfort. I do like the feeling of a little more space. But in cold weather, what I have been doing is stringing a second hammock below my Clark, and putting my pad in the lower hammock to create an air pocket below my body. I'm using an 1/8" closed cell pad with reflective material laminated onto it, which has been working great! I have also thrown a wool blanket in the lower hammock to increase the vapor barrier thickness. But if I put a pad in the hammock with me in cold temperature, I get a lot of condensation on either my bag or the pad, and I haven't found a good solution to that yet. If I leave the pad in the lower level hammock, the condensation occurs on the lower hammock or pad, which leaves me high and dry in my upper level. I still get a lot of condensation on the inside of the weather shield above me, but I'm working on a solution for that as well.

  6. #6
    New Member pisgahfan's Avatar
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    I use my Mountain Hardwear Superlite Pad all year. I enjoy the comfort of having a pad in the Clark NA with me. I've never really noticed any condensation issues from sleeping this way. The pad helps spread the hammock out which is nice for a big guy like myself. The extra insulation of having a pad in the hammock with me has allowed me to sleep comfortably in single digit temps w/ a 0 deg bag and a good set of base layers. One added bonus is the Mountain Hardwear pad converts to a camp chair w/ 2 small aluminum poles. It's like the swiss army knife of sleeping pads.

  7. #7
    Senior Member neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    During some of my seemingly endless experimentation, I have been trying out my Speer SPE and some pads. I have had this as a backup for over a year, but have never really used it. Last year on my Olympic mountain trip, at the last minute I nearly ditched my SuperShelter in favor of just the SPE and pads. On the theory that I was going to carry at least a minimal pad anyway in case I had to go to ground. So in a last-minute fit of ounce saving, I thought "well why don't I just take pads only?". Saving the weight of the SuperShelter. But at the last minute, after trying to compare things in the hot Mississippi August Sun, I decided there was still too much comfort in favor of the SuperShelter versus just pads. So I took both.

    But lately I've been playing with the SPE some more, mainly because I've been using my top loading Speer hammock while testing the Peapod. So it just seemed an easy matter to drop the SPE and pad into the Speer and sit down on top of it, and then lie down. Then I decided to go ahead and try it without the Peapod, using various thickness of pads. It works pretty good. And it is easier to manage than with my bottom loading Hennessy hammock, although it seems more user friendly than I remembered from last summer even in the Hennessy. And so far anyway, I just don't seem to have any sweat issues. And after further experimentation, it really seems pretty comfortable -- just not that much of a change from the hammock by itself. As long as you don't count a bit of inconvenience from trying to get positioned on the pad in the first place, especially when using the Hennessy. But all of that seems to be improving with practice anyway. As for the comfort level, I'm wondering what I thought was the big difference last year when I decided I wouldn't be happy with the pads by themselves. Maybe it had something to do with how darn hot it was. I don't know, it just seems as though the difference is not as great as I thought it was at that time.

    I did a little testing recently, for short periods of time. With a Ridgerest only, I would say that it was just barely okay at 32°. So if I had been out overnight for a full eight hours, it might have proved a little inadequate at that temperature. But that would match Speers "some observed temperatures with close cell pads", where I believe he has a 5/8" pad listed at 37°. But I've also read from other people that a 5/8" pad like a Ridgerest might not be quite as warm as a 5/8" pad that does not have the ridges in it. Anyway, it looks like it will be fine for me in the mid 30s, and maybe okay at 32°. Probably not okay below that temperature, at least not for a long night. But of course that's not a problem, because I think I remember last winter I did 18° with the same Ridgerest plus a Thermarest UltraLite 1-inch thick three-quarter length all inside the SPE. And I remember being very warm under those conditions, but I need to look up my test on that combo.

    But here's my question. Though we are all aware of the many ways in which a pad decreases comfort in a hammock for a lot of people, is it possible that the pad actually increases comfort in some ways? I just wondered what the frequent pad users thought regarding this question. For one thing, the pad seems to give me somewhat of a flatter sleeping surface. And the pad inside the SPE with the wings pushing outward on the Hennessy sides gives me a sensation of more openness inside the hammock, solving any net related problems. And it seems to me that whether in the Hennessy or in the Speer, I am actually able to lie on my side a little better than without the pads. I'm assuming this is because of the aforementioned "flatter sleeping surface" -- or so it seems. I wouldn't say it was a big difference, but the difference seems to be there.

    Has anybody else noticed anything like this, or am I just hallucinating again?
    i had a SPE never used it,i gave it to peanuts,for me i been down to 8.6 degrees with a 3/8 pad,i have a modified layered pad for going lower.it doubles as a frame for my frameless pack.i cant even tell i am sleeping on a pad in my claytor jungle hammock. neo


    http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...php?i=2515&c=6


    http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...php?i=2519&c=6


    http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...php?i=2518&c=6
    the matrix has you

  8. #8
    Senior Member fin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s62w23098 View Post
    But if I put a pad in the hammock with me in cold temperature, I get a lot of condensation on either my bag or the pad,
    I think this is because of the pad I use with the laminated reflective material - it's like a space blanket laminated to a 1/4 piece of rubbery closed cell foam. It's a piece 48 x 68 that I purchased from American Science and Surplus for $5, and trimmed to fit. I should try the Mountain Hardware SuperLite - I like the idea that it converts to a chair. But you can't beat the price that I paid for this pad, and for the results I have had with it.

  9. #9
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    All I can add is I've had good luck with my two 1/4in Oware pads, they are trimmed to SGT Rock's demensions and they work great for me. I think high twenties have been my lower limit with them. I look forward to trying an SPE with a thermarest, I had no luck staying on a thermarest by itself.

    With a Hennessy (again, my only experience) getting your pad positioned to lie diagonally before you sit down on it is half the battle.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info, guys. But, what I'm really trying to get opinions on: Do any of you think that the pad might actually increase comfort in some few ways, compared to no pad? When I say comfort, I don't mean temp, but just how the hammock feels?

    Now, again, we all know that many folks think the pads decrease, or even ruin, the inherent comfort of the hammock, going buy their personal experiences. But, having noticed recently that, with the pad in both my Speer and my HH hammocks, I seem to have a flatter overall sleeping platform. And, it may even help just a bit with fetal position comfort, due to the extra flat floor. It sure doesn't hurt. And like Pisgahfan said, it also helps to spread the hammock out, opening things up.

    This has surprised me, since the general consensus seems to be that, yes, pads will sure keep you warm, but at the cost of other ( non-warmth related) types of comfort. And that may well be the case, overall. But, I'm starting to think that in at least a couple of areas, the pads may actually increase comfort a bit.

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