Tent to Hammock conversion questions.

[lori]

A tent/tarp is superior to a hammock in all ways EXCEPT comfort. A tent/tarp is cheaper, warmer, lighter, more roomy, better weather protection, etc.

Seriously?

Do you know how HARD it is to find a reasonably priced free standing double wall tent that does NOT weigh five pounds by itself?

I told myself that the only way I was getting a tent was that it had to be (in combination with my top quilt and pad) lighter than my hammock setup. It had to give me head room to sit up. It had to have a side entry, and not have an entry so sloped that rain would pour into the tent the instant I opened the fly - this has happened to friends with end entry Big Agnes tents, which have such a slope to the inner that there is literally inches left in the vestibule - which then gives you no room for the pack and boots you can't fit in that solo tent with you, your pad and sleeping bag. I also didn't want to pay more than I paid for the hammock.

If you want a tent that actually works for you, it's a huge challenge to get something that is light, cheap and adequate to the task - in my case camping in areas where a freestanding tent is the most effective option. Beaches and high alpine open granite slab where you have to weight down the shelter you use with rocks.

Having additional features that make the tent comfortable for me made it impossible - I settled for a three pound Sierra Designs tent that I found deeply discounted (it's a $300 tent most of the time) that I can sort of sit up in. I found no other tents that met the necessary budget, space, side entry that spared my knees and kept me somewhat more dry (it's just plain mad to expect a dry camp in a tent, you drag the water in when you're coming in out of the rain and trying not to get soaked while doing it) AND be freestanding.

The fact of the matter is that no shelter is suitable for all situations - which is why I have the hammock, sometimes go with just the tarp, and sometimes take either the tarptent or the double wall tent. I go a lot, and california has such variable terrain/conditions that it is just plain unreasonable to imagine one method works everywhere. And finding a tent was misery. It was much easier to find a hammock that worked. I managed to get shelters that in combination with the top quilt and a neo air keep me at 5 lbs (6 if I take the tent) regardless. The hammock and two quilts, the hammock, pad and top quilt, the tarptent/quilt/pad, the tarp/pad/quilt - all weight out within 6-8 oz of each other. Tent still heavier.

Oh, well. You take what you need when you need it.

[Catavarie]

...I also wouldn't want it to end up being lower quality build and fall apart...

I love my DIY Hammock. It's comfortable, has the features I want and nothing that I don't. The build quality I feel is better than any "mass produced" hammock because I control the quality. If I don't like a line of stiches I rip it out and redo it.

Now I'll admit that I'm biased, because it is my work and I'm darn proud of it.

DIY gear has the level of quality that you're willing to put into it.


But if your set on purchasing, which I can certainly understand and fully approve of as well, then check the For Sale forums here for some great deals on hammocks, tarps, and insulation. Can save yourself some serious money buying a hammock that has been used only half a dozen times.

[Raul Perez]

A tent/tarp is superior to a hammock in all ways EXCEPT comfort. A tent/tarp is cheaper, warmer, lighter, more roomy, better weather protection, etc.

Debatable...

Lets take a look at these points:

Tent /tarp are cheaper HOWEVER if you are looking to go UL or SUL the price starts to become comparable. You really can't compare a $120 Eddie Bauer Target tent to a WBBB. All things being equal as far as shelter, weather protection, bag and bottom insulation for an UL or SUL set up the hammock will be more expensive. But by about $150-$200. So in the end you are correct on this point.

Warmer - Yes. An enclosed tent is warmer than a hammock/tarp set up especially for the winter trekking. However, there then poses condensation issue within the tent structure.

Lighter - An UL Cuben Tarp is lighter than a hammock set up. However, SGT Rock has proven that a hammock set up vs a tent set up is basically comparable for UL and SUL purposes.

Roomy - A hammock is basically made for sleeping you can't play poker in it with your buds. However, with a decent tarp you can cook, sit up, and even view the world (tarp in porch mode) much more easily than in a tent.

Better weather protection - I have an issue with this and I really disagree because I've been witness to it first hand. I've never had a problem in the rain with my tarp/hammock set up. Always dry. This set up is superior because I dont have to worry about level site selection or worry about water pooling around or under my tent. Also, I can effectively pack up 99% of my gear in a dry environment under my tarp and then (in my rain gear) pack up my tarp. In a tent you have to pack up a huge structure in the rain and then pack down your ENTIRE shelter system which is soaked whereas the tarp can be packed away from all the dry equipment. Even set up in the rain is much easier because the tarp goes up first and then you are protected.

But then again I've only been hammocking for 3 years. Nobody should take me seriously since I'm just a foul mouthed kilt wearing monkey impersonator

[luisdent]

I'm just getting more confused by the minute! All this is great information, but my head is starting to spin.

First of all, I own a tent now that I've had for a long time (10 years). It is an eddie bauer 1-person backpacking tent from target! Woot! ha. But in all seriousness, it is great for one person, because it's a little roomier than most UL 1-persons, but not as big as a normal 2-person.

On the plus side, I hiked up and camped on the hancock notch trails one time and experienced a very strong rainstorm. The $80 tent and included tarp kept me completely dry. I use a lightweight ripstop nylon tarp from EMS as a ground tarp.

So my tent experience hasn't been bad, but the three main reasons I want to upgrade are that the tent packed weighs 6.5 pounds. It is a little larger than I would like packed. It spans the full width of my pack and just fits strapped to the bottom. Lastly, it takes longer to setup than I would like.

So cost is a big factor. I really don't want to go much over $200. The velocity 1 tent is super fast and easy to setup and would basically be an upgrade to what I have now. THe hammock would add comfort and possibly more setup locations. However, the white mountains don't seem to offer any good sites for tents or hammocks with close trees and steep terrain. Ugh.

So I feel like I don't "need" to upgrade, but getting caught in the rain would stink with my current tent if it wasn't already setup. I'd estimate 10-15 minutes for setup. The velocity 1 took me about 2-3 minutes. And my knees aren't the best, so weight is important to me, or lack thereof.

So cost wise, the ems tent with footprint would be $225 right now. The expedition asym from hennesy with upgraded hex tarp would be $170. Hammock wins in that situation. So assuming my pad and bag are sufficient for 3 seasons in the whites the hammock is cheaper. So the real question is which is better in the whites...

I'd usually be camping with at least one other person. I don't know anyone with a hammock, so I'd have to find a location I could use the hammock that is near the location we find for a tent. But if we have to find a spot for someone else's tent, we'd probably have a place for my tent. Would there be proper trees AND proper tent ground near each other? I don't know. I never took the time to examine the tree situation when I've hiked. They are close together in most locations, but I think it's gonna be hard to know until I get out there.

I guess I should camp with my current tent and scope out the trees and gauge how likely it is to find hanging locations. :-/

[Ironman]

I've lived and hiked in N.H. and White Mountains most of my life. Now in Tampa, Fl area. I've had a number of different tents and in N.H. it's tough to find any level surface other than AMC tent platforms. I've slept with side of tent up against trees on sloping ground just to keep myself from sliding inside tent. I've spent a lot of time and miles looking for appropriate tenting sites, and these issues haven't stopped me from tenting; however, I am now planning on going the hammock route. Why??? Getting a good night's sleep. Since my 40's (now 64) I find myself tossing and turning all night and waking during the process due to sore bones and muscles. Everything I'm reading on this forum is telling me a good night's sleep can be had hanging, and the past few years on the A.T. I've seen a number of hikers who swear by their hammocks. I love my Henry Shires tarp tent (rainbow), and even a few of my other tents (freestanding), but if it sits on the ground I guess I'm going to have to move on and join the ranks of those who wake in the morning refreshed and ready for another day on the trail.

[Simon]

I...I guess I should camp with my current tent and scope out the trees and gauge how likely it is to find hanging locations. :-/

Go tent camping, take along a cheap light travel hammock - Grand Trunk or similar. If you already carry a tarp, just add some cord you can make yourself a nice little hammock setup, compare and contrast the experience and see how you feel. Note that most people take a night or three to get used to sensation of sleeping in a hammock so give it a little time before you make your mind up. And let us know how it goes

[Boomer]

Seriously?

Do you know how HARD it is to find a reasonably priced free standing double wall tent that does NOT weigh five pounds by itself?

Here's my tent: http://www.rei.com/product/811252/si...ning-xt-4-tent

Fits 4 people and you can sit 8 inside. Lightweight too (less than 2# a person). However, I find the ground really hard, so I bring along a 3.5" thick REI pad, which weighs 5#. In the long run, a hammock weighs less for me and has more comfort.

When conditions or location down allow, sometimes a tent is better. I think a tent only makes sense in some cases. For example, last weekend when I went camping at a hammock unfriendly campground. I was told to take it down. I slept in my tent. I won't be going back there again!

In really nasty weather or conditions, sometimes a tent is better. I think that it depends on the location and weather conditions. In the videos & films I've seen, I don't recall seeing too many hammocks on Everest or even Rainier. It would be pretty tough to put up a hammock at 26,000 feet in 40 knot winds with blowing snow. But for your everday backpacking? Sure.

[BillyBob58]

When the wind is blowing like crazy and it is just flat cold, pretty hard to beat a tent. You can get some tent-like tarps for the hammock - but it will never seal up like a tent.

Now I'm coming at this as someone who has always lived north of the 45th parallel. If I lived by the equator, where cold is a non-issue and the concern is creepy crawlies, then a hammock all the way!

My sil-nylon tarp, A16 bug bivy, tyvek ground cloth, Z-rest, and mummy bag are sitting in the gear closet now. Replaced them with a WBBB dbl 1.7, 3 season Long/Wide Black Mamba, 3 season Incubator and a Big MambaJamba tarp. I'm carrying more weight. It cost a small fortune for all that down. But man it sure is comfy!

Debatable...

Lets take a look at these points:

Tent /tarp are cheaper HOWEVER if you are looking to go UL or SUL the price starts to become comparable. You really can't compare a $120 Eddie Bauer Target tent to a WBBB. All things being equal as far as shelter, weather protection, bag and bottom insulation for an UL or SUL set up the hammock will be more expensive. But by about $150-$200. So in the end you are correct on this point.

Warmer - Yes. An enclosed tent is warmer than a hammock/tarp set up especially for the winter trekking. However, there then poses condensation issue within the tent structure.

Lighter - An UL Cuben Tarp is lighter than a hammock set up. However, SGT Rock has proven that a hammock set up vs a tent set up is basically comparable for UL and SUL purposes.

Roomy - A hammock is basically made for sleeping you can't play poker in it with your buds. However, with a decent tarp you can cook, sit up, and even view the world (tarp in porch mode) much more easily than in a tent.

Better weather protection - I have an issue with this and I really disagree because I've been witness to it first hand. I've never had a problem in the rain with my tarp/hammock set up. Always dry. This set up is superior because I dont have to worry about level site selection or worry about water pooling around or under my tent. Also, I can effectively pack up 99% of my gear in a dry environment under my tarp and then (in my rain gear) pack up my tarp. In a tent you have to pack up a huge structure in the rain and then pack down your ENTIRE shelter system which is soaked whereas the tarp can be packed away from all the dry equipment. Even set up in the rain is much easier because the tarp goes up first and then you are protected.

But then again I've only been hammocking for 3 years. Nobody should take me seriously since I'm just a foul mouthed kilt wearing monkey impersonator

I'm just getting more confused by the minute! All this is great information, but my head is starting to spin.
So my tent experience hasn't been bad, but the three main reasons I want to upgrade are that the tent packed weighs 6.5 pounds. ........................
So I feel like I don't "need" to upgrade, but getting caught in the rain would stink with my current tent if it wasn't already setup. I'd estimate 10-15 minutes for setup. The velocity 1 took me about 2-3 minutes. And my knees aren't the best, so weight is important to me, or lack thereof.

So cost wise, the ems tent with footprint would be $225 right now. The expedition asym from hennesy with upgraded hex tarp would be $170. Hammock wins in that situation. So assuming my pad and bag are sufficient for 3 seasons in the whites the hammock is cheaper. So the real question is which is better in the whites...
.................................................. ........................


I guess I should camp with my current tent and scope out the trees and gauge how likely it is to find hanging locations. :-/

Well, there is a lot to respond to here on this thread, so I am leaving out a lot of quotes.

First, I agree with Raul when he says "debatable". When it comes to shelter in high winds and cold temps, it is hard to beat a 4 season, double wall tent. Especially if we are discussing winter, above timberline conditions. I don't think we are discussing those conditions, but if we were than a 4 season tent is hard to beat. But weight and cost certainly becomes a factor.

A stock tarp and HHULBP ( a 2 lb "bivy" if you will) protected with a HHSS weighs ~ 3 lbs and will block a lot of wind and rain, I know from experience(though with the several oz heavier UL Explorer). A larger tarp used with that will block even more, as will the addition of the HHSS overcover(3 oz) with or without a larger tarp. ( I am just using the HHSS as one of many examples.) I see 3 things hard to beat in the tent:NO trees needed, the double wall trapping some warm air, and the criss crossing tent poles providing strength against wind and snow. But the HHSS UC provides a sort of "dbl wall" below, and the OC + net provides a bit of one on top. I have found that it can get really hot in the HHSS at 50-60F or so, with no other insulation and that OC in place. I have to vent it!

For an added 7 oz to the above, I can use my JRB 11x10 rectangular tarp, which allow closing of the ends. Or using in a hammock hut ( closeable doors and pitched to the ground) or using a Baker Hut pitch, with the windward side pitched all the way to the ground. Any of this, combined with the HHSS OC/UC, is going to block formidable amounts of wind and rain. All for ~ 3 lbs 10 oz, but even that includes 6 or 8 oz of HH OCF pad, so not even that much weight! So more like ~ 3 lbs 4 oz ( right now I am just comparing tent to hammock/tarp/OC/UC, not insulation).

So the question is, assuming you have trees, can you find a double wall tent with poles that will actually provide more weather protection than the HHSS, for less than 4 lbs? I doubt it. And the hammock shelter allows me to stand up when not in the hammock! And don't forget: sooner or later tent floors get holes, and/or you have to carry a ground cloth. In the hammock, you do not touch the wet ground! You are high and dry!

Another advantage is: as flat/rock-root free/dry/well drained ground is not required, you are free to take advantage of any natural wind shelters. This can actually be a huge advantage, especially if you don't have to camp right with other people.

I have slept in the Explorer UL version of the above, at 3 lb for the hammock/SSUC/tarp plus 8 oz for the pad and 2 oz for a space blanket. The howling wind, coming off of a lake 10 or 20 yds away, was blowing right into the foot end of the small stock tarp. It was high 30s or low 40s, not sure. Zero advantage from sheltered terrain, as I wanted to camp next to my buddies in their tents. Every one was sure I would freeze. I think I was also inside a Cat's Meow bag, with a wind blocking shell. The noisy, flapping tarp nearly drove me crazy. But once I fell asleep, I never even knew there was a breeze, toasty and comfy all night. Point being, that UC really blocked a lot of wind! And for whatever reason, my tent buddies were cold that night!

With snow packed around the tent to seal things up, that pole supported double wall is definitely going to add some temp. And having 2 or more folks in the tent adds even more. It is hard to beat that. But, just having a slightly thicker TQ/bag or clothing can make up for a lot of that.

Any way, it is somewhat debatable if a hammock/tarp can compete with a tent for cold weather performance, and def criss crossing poles and a double wall can be really handy in cold wind at high speeds, especially as trees are not required. But the chance of finding a useable sheltered from the wind spot with a hammock is also a big benefit of the hammock.

Luisdent, about that 6.5 lb tent: look at the above listed HHSS weights, even with a large tarp for luxury.

And don't forget this option: instead of a large tarp, a GrizzBeak can be added to the windward side of the stock HH tarp!
http://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/tarpaccessories.html

But I know you are strapped for cash, so just an HH, maybe beefed up with an added small WM tarp, used with your pad and bag, should get the job done.

If money is a major concern, consider a WB Traveler DL or Claytor No Net ( $40 including shipping!). http://www.mosquitohammock.com/
These are very comfy hammocks with double layers, which will make it much easier to use your pad. or heck even a Claytor Jungle hammock at $150. A little heavier at ~ 3 lbs ( manuf. spec) but that includes a large diamond tarp ( larger than the HH stock tarp) and again, double layer for your pad!

[LazyMan]

Funny asking if a hammock is better than a tent in a hammock forum


To solve the backpack problem, I've always bought a larger than needed pack cover (for my 50L pack, I have a 80L cover..) and snugged the cover completely around the pack at night. Doesnt add much weight, and keeps things dry.

[luisdent]

Funny asking if a hammock is better than a tent in a hammock forum


To solve the backpack problem, I've always bought a larger than needed pack cover (for my 50L pack, I have a 80L cover..) and snugged the cover completely around the pack at night. Doesnt add much weight, and keeps things dry.

I have a pack cover, but i'm not sure if it goes all around, as it is for hiking, but i was thinking of using that.

As for the hammocks, I was in EMS today comparing the tent I mentioned and the hammocks they sell (eno single nest) and I thought of a few things. First, it seems as though the hammock would be easier to pack. Even if weight were the same, the tent is all in one pouch which is still relatively long. The hammock would all be in separate bags allowing more options with the pack on where to store everything.

I was considering the eno system vs. the hennesy, and it seems they both have ups and downs. The eno hammock would be ultra small and light and would be modular. So I could use it without the bug net if I wanted to. Their bug net looks decent too as it fully covers the hammock allowing you to sit in the hammock while still in the net as opposed to the hennesy.

It would be slightly more expensive if I had to buy a $70 tarp as well, but perhaps there are cheaper tarp options? Even still, if I bought the hammock for $55 and didn't like it, I could possibly return it to the store or sell it here for less and only lose a bit to see how one would be... Just some thoughts.

The benefit of the hennesy style is that everything is self contained and one piece making it a little more simplistic. However, if your bug net rips you need a new hammock. If your hammock rips you need a new whole hammock. If any part of the eno system rips you buy that part for $55. Not too bad. Any thoughts on going that route? I think the main concern would be the tarp. I assume the materials are similar and if setup in a similar way temperature control would be the same?