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Thread: Scout Leaders?

  1. #161
    Senior Member DuctTape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylemishler View Post
    Im an Assitaint Scoutmaster for Troop 274 out of Tulare, CA.

    And we made the penny stoves, had to read the regs VERY careful. Scouts can use the stove but can't fuel the stove. Technically as long as adult fills it the scouts can use it
    Not sure how you came to this conclusion with careful reading. The new regs (unfortunately) clearly prohibit the equipment (the stove) itself. The only loophole allowing an alcohol stove is one that is not homemade or handcrafted like a trangia or vargo or evernew. But pop can type stoves are even mentioned by name as prohibited. The fuel is not recommended but isn't prohibited.

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    That is correct. The guide to safe scouting does not prohibit scouts using or filling up liquid fuel stoves. But I have heard this from many people. In fact when you go to Philmont that is the only type of stove you use so most Troops practice with those during their training hikes. And when you take IOLS training they work through safe stove use which includes liquid fuels.

    The guide to safe scouting does permit soda can type stoves if they are commercial variety. I have often thought that I should start up a new business and sell them and then I could purchase one from my business.

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    I'm a cubmaster at Pack 527, and new committee member for Troop 527 (Kenmore, NY). The current leadership hasn't warmed up to the extremely new idea of hammocking yet, but I suspect as my son and I show the benefits of comfort (and dryness) we'll get them converted.

  4. #164
    Senior Member DuctTape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerNageler View Post
    That is correct. The guide to safe scouting does not prohibit scouts using or filling up liquid fuel stoves. But I have heard this from many people. In fact when you go to Philmont that is the only type of stove you use so most Troops practice with those during their training hikes. And when you take IOLS training they work through safe stove use which includes liquid fuels.

    The guide to safe scouting does permit soda can type stoves if they are commercial variety. I have often thought that I should start up a new business and sell them and then I could purchase one from my business.
    Even commercially made soda can type stoves are expressly prohibited. Commercially produced is not the exception as they cannot be handcrafted either. Now those cottage guys using a lathe or tool&die are not handcrafting them, so those would be ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylemishler View Post
    Im an Assitaint Scoutmaster for Troop 274 out of Tulare, CA.

    And we made the penny stoves, had to read the regs VERY careful. Scouts can use the stove but can't fuel the stove. Technically as long as adult fills it the scouts can use it
    FROM THE GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING:

    Approved chemical-fueled equipment—Commercially manufactured equipment, including stoves, grills, burners, heaters, and lanterns that are designed to be used with chemical fuels.
    Prohibited chemical-fueled equipment—Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed.
    Recommended chemical fuels—White gas (Coleman fuel); kerosene; liquefied petroleum gas fuels, including propane, butane, and isobutane; vegetable oil fuels; biodiesel fuel; and commercially prepared gelled-alcohol fuel in original containers.
    Chemical fuels not recommended—Unleaded gasoline; liquid alcohol fuels, including isopropyl alcohol, denatured ethyl alcohol, and ethanol; and other flammable chemicals that are not in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions for chemical-fueled equipment.

    Storing, Handling, and Using Chemical Fuels and Equipment:
    An adult knowledgeable about chemical fuels and equipment should always supervise youths involved in the storage, handling, and use of chemical fuels and equipment.


    What is funny is that you can use stoves with biodiesel. :-)

  6. #166
    Senior Member perdidochas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuctTape View Post
    Even commercially made soda can type stoves are expressly prohibited.
    I don't read it that way.

    Approved chemical-fueled equipment—Commercially manufactured equipment, including stoves, grills, burners, heaters, and lanterns that are designed to be used with chemical fuels.
    Prohibited chemical-fueled equipment—Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed.

    To me that reads that commercially manufactured equipment designed to work with chemical fuels are approved.
    Time is but the stream I go afishing in. Henry David Thoreau

  7. #167
    Senior Member DuctTape's Avatar
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    The prohibited section is clear.

  8. #168
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    I would interpret "Commercially manufactured equipment" as those items you can buy in real stores.
    Trangia and Vargo stoves easily meet that criteria.

    It has been my experience that if you have to work hard to make a rule fit what you want to do, you probably should find a better way to meet the rule.
    DKPerdue

    Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.
    Ronald Reagan, President of the United States

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkperdue View Post
    It has been my experience that if you have to work hard to make a rule fit what you want to do, you probably should find a better way to meet the rule.

    I wouldn't actually start a company to get around the rule. That would be a lot of work. I have had a company in the past, and had to do quarterly sales tax etc. Not worth it just to take a soda can stove on a Boy Scout Trip.

    I still do find it funny that Bio-diesel is permitted.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerNageler View Post
    I wouldn't actually start a company to get around the rule. That would be a lot of work. I have had a company in the past, and had to do quarterly sales tax etc. Not worth it just to take a soda can stove on a Boy Scout Trip.

    I still do find it funny that Bio-diesel is permitted.
    biodiesel is pretty much just vegetable oil.....(slightly modified)
    Time is but the stream I go afishing in. Henry David Thoreau

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