How cool for a 1/4" pad?

[Fiddleback]

Of course, specific temp ratings of pads can't be accurately estimated without knowing what the rest of the sleep system is, how the hanger him/herself sleeps (cold or hot), what the weather conditions are (more than temp, e.g., wind, humidity, precip, etc.) and a bunch of other rather important considerations. Still...

For me and my sleep system, the older Oware ¼" works to 25°. I've been perfectly comfortable at 26°, felt cold coming through at 22°. One thing I've planned for those colder temps but have not yet tried out is incorporating my sit pad (a 4oz hunk of WM blue foam) at the cold spot (shoulders). FYI, these were temps I noted...I didn't have a mini-max thermometer so temps may have hit lower.

I've never had any issues with slipping with this 60 X 40 X ¼, 7oz pad and I think its dimensions are the reason why. At this size there's little room for it to slip. Taking care when I lay down, I've not had any wrinkle or bunching problems either. Perhaps the bad behavior rep of pads comes from the smaller ones?

FB

[Kerry]

Yeah, I was wondering if the smaller pads were more prone to placement/slipping problems, and I was thinking the larger pad would offest some of that; certainly how it sounds here. I'm hoping, the 1/4" thickness would make up for some of the bulk issue I had with my 3/8" thick blue 'wing pad'.

If I can be comfy at 50deg, I'll be happy; that'll get me through most of what I do. I only have summer top quilt(s) anyway. I have other full sleeping bags, but, because I always hike with my wife, I need 2 complete setups, which I don't currently have for colder conditions.

What's your opinion of the packability of the large pad? How do you handle it? I'm hoping to get everything in my 2600 CI Ray-Way pack, which is no problem with my current ground setup split between my wife and I...

Kerry

[Fiddleback]

For me, the bulkiness of the pad is it's biggest downside. For a while I merely rolled it up and strapped it to the outside of the pack. It wasn't particularly good for the pad and it didn't look too good either, if that's a consideration. Putting it inside just took up too much room in the pack I had.

Later on I was gifted a LuxuryLite pack and that solved all the problems. The Oware pad I mentioned above can be easily folded and inserted into one of the extra-large cylinders. Inside, the pad unfolds/springs back to fill the void which leaves a perfect space to place the hammock. It's a great solution...

But it's a really bad (and expensive) reason to get a LuxuryLite pack.

FB

[Kerry]

Hmmm. I was afraid you'd say that.

My Ray Way pack is 2,600 CI, probably a little small for such a pad. I suppose the pad could be cut a tad narrower, and tapered as well. I'll probably just have to get one and see what I think. The nest isn't exactly a super compact object either, so it may all come out in the wash. At least the pad is lighter than the nest.

Kerry

[BillyBob58]

Of course, specific temp ratings of pads can't be accurately estimated without knowing what the rest of the sleep system is, how the hanger him/herself sleeps (cold or hot), what the weather conditions are (more than temp, e.g., wind, humidity, precip, etc.) and a bunch of other rather important considerations. Still...

For me and my sleep system, the older Oware ¼" works to 25°. I've been perfectly comfortable at 26°, felt cold coming through at 22°. One thing I've planned for those colder temps but have not yet tried out is incorporating my sit pad (a 4oz hunk of WM blue foam) at the cold spot (shoulders). FYI, these were temps I noted...I didn't have a mini-max thermometer so temps may have hit lower.

I've never had any issues with slipping with this 60 X 40 X ¼, 7oz pad and I think its dimensions are the reason why. At this size there's little room for it to slip. Taking care when I lay down, I've not had any wrinkle or bunching problems either. Perhaps the bad behavior rep of pads comes from the smaller ones?

FB

Fiddleback, you've always been a pad only guy far as I can tell. So I'm wondering, do ever sleep without the pad in "warm" weather? If so, what kind of comfort difference do you note between no pad and pad? How comfy do things feel pad vs no pad, not counting warmth?

[DemostiX]

Look here and at his web-site for Warbonnetguy's recommendation. My reading is that too many make too many mistakes of two kinds:

Too small a pad
Too thick a pad, (which winds up being stiff and non-conforming)

I use an underquilt for one hammock. But, I also find great insulative value of nothing more complicated or hi tech than a wool sweater knitted with thicker, stiffer, and harder-to-compress yarn and stitches. Less good, but still worth a try is very heavy acrylic fleece found in some sweat pants and shirts.

It takes no more effort than comparing shoulder and torso feeling in a hammock with outside temps of, say 50 degrees F with and without such a sweater / (or jumper to Brits.)

Read in an HF sticky and elsewhere on the value of boundary temp and vapor control to find theories of how an why wool works so well.

But, returning to pads: Thinner and wider.

[Deadphans]

Question that goes in line with this thread, and may help you out too Kerry, is how can I convert an R-value to a temperature it is recommended for? For instance, say I have a 1 inch thick pad with a R value of 2.2....

[BillyBob58]

Well, I have a nice table by Youngblood in OpenOffice, but I can't get it to print correctly here. But it says 1/4" ccf ( whatever type he was referring to) has an R value of 1.09 and has 13*F of insulative value. So roughly 12*F of insulation per R value unit?

So, if you are comfy with nothing at 70F, and not counting any insulating and poorly compressing clothes you might be wearing( thick fleece etc) you should be good to 57 with the 1/4" pad. Or if good at 60 with nothing, then 47F, etc.

While 1" has an R value of 4.34 and 53*F insulative value and good to 17 for those comfy with nothing at 70.

How real world accurate all of that was I wouldn't know, but will surely vary greatly with the individual, clothing worn/ bags slept in(and how compressible they are) and wind and wet.

I can say that with stacked pads(using an SPE), one a Ridgerest ( Youngblood warns this type of pad may not reach it's full R value potential in a hammock) and one TR Ultralight with combined R values of 5.2 I have been toasty at ~18. With of course some amount of warm clothing. I figure I could have gone at least a few degrees colder, maybe quite a few. Considering Fiddleback is good to 25 with 1/4"(Rvalue 1.09)!

[oldgringo]

The thread stickied at the top of this forum has a lot of good info...Youngblood provides a link to the r-value table in post#36.

[Fiddleback]

Fiddleback, you've always been a pad only guy far as I can tell. So I'm wondering, do ever sleep without the pad in "warm" weather? If so, what kind of comfort difference do you note between no pad and pad? How comfy do things feel pad vs no pad, not counting warmth?

I'm a 'pad only guy' in the sense I've never tried anything else. Part of that is my parsimonious nature, part is the weight (an awful lot of insulation for 7oz), and part lack of motivation to change...it does the job in the conditions I hang in -- the hammock/pad combo still gives me the best nights of sleep I've had on the trail.

And no, I've never not used the pad. The warmest night I've ever hung in had a 56° low...way too low, in most hanger's experience, to go without underinsulation. I have one of those rope hammocks in the backyard and I've found if the temp is below 70° I need something under me when I'm dressed in summer time clothes.

Above 70° at night just doesn't happen around here...yet another reason I moved from San Antonio.

FB