Using a carabiner to clip directly into a marlin spike hitch.

[Labrador]

It was not my intention to actually bring an end to any discussion. Rather I was just trying to shed light on that great new product from Dutch. Sorry if that offended anyone.

[goatnuck]

I'm a little late to the game with my thoughts, but here they are...

TinCup is correct about the use of a carabiner with a 'MSH' not really being a proper MSH. However, I do use this setup with an ENO DN that my wife and I share. I tie a MSH passing the standing end through the loop and clip in a biner. I used to back it up with a half hitch, but don't bother any longer as it comfortably holds 325lbs without any sign of slipping.

[Banana Hammock]

I just want to say thank you to Towllie (don't forget to bring a towel!) for putting this technique out there. Seems to work GREAT for me. Don't know why I never thought of it.

Aside from the apparent anger in his video, I appreciate this over the traditional Marlin Spike Hitch with the Whoopie Sling OVER the knot, not the toggle. Thanks! Good stuff!!!!

I'm using traditional carabiners, and I'm happy!

[Bitts]

Great thread guys, I do have a couple questions now after reading it.

Why is the msh being used instead of a clove hitch to tie into a beiner. The clove hitch is just as easy to tie, while also secure enough to use as a tie in when climbing.

Having never used a msh & toggle. Would a clove hitch & toggle work just as well or does the msh perform better?

Isn't the use of tree straps, webbing, so on vs the rope to avoid not only killing the tree. Which yes, a thin strand of amsteel or such, under 3000-5000 pounds of force can & will do. But to keep "dirt" out of the rope. Slowly working away at the fibers. Causing them to eventually fail while under load. Isn't this just like you don't step on your rope or let it touch the ground?

[gmcttr]

...Why is the msh being used instead of a clove hitch to tie into a beiner. The clove hitch is just as easy to tie, while also secure enough to use as a tie in when climbing...

I'm guessing the OP knew the MSH and toggle method. Then he had a desire to replace the toggle with a carabiner but may not have considered if there was a better knot to use.

Does a clove hitch work well with 1" wide webbing?

[Bitts]

Both will slip to a degree. But the clove should be the more secure of the two. Since the msh can flip. If I was belaying someone & wanted to tie them in, without taking them off belay. I would clove hitch them to an anchor, with my belay point tied off with a mule. Personally wouldn't trust either with out it being backed up in a situation where I thought the landing questionable. But a foot or two of the ground the clove should work fine.

Edit: of course I'm biased to the clove since its what I've used in the past. Perhaps others could also speak to this with greater authority.

[RootCause]

Why is the msh being used instead of a clove hitch to tie into a beiner. The clove hitch is just as easy to tie, while also secure enough to use as a tie in when climbing.

Hi Bitts,

Some history of the whoopie & marlin spike hitch (MSH) help here, I think. When whoopie slings were first being checked into for use in hammock suspension, the thoughts were that they could be used to speed setup and lighten pack weight. The MSH can be tied really quickly, almost foolproof-ly, and can use a local stick or almost anything else as the toggle (marlin spike) to hold the hitch. This results in a fast, strong suspension that lightens the pack because you're not carrying climbing-rated metal rings or carabiners.

The original poster of this thread asked about using a carabiner to replace the stick/toggle in the MSH. (Ostensibly to reduce the risk of the whoopie slipping off the hitch.) The good news is: you can. You can also use a clove hitch to replace the MSH. There are no hard-and-fast rules, just some commonly-used techniques, followed by encouragement to play with them and discover what works best for you.

I've switched from the MSH to the Dutch Buckle.(seen here). Now I don't have to tie ANY knot (and frankly, I'm a huge fan of knots & ropework), it's light, fast setup, and bombproof. (I've got pictures of four Boy Scouts goofing around in my WB Traveller, with the Dutch Buckles and whoopie slings holding them all without incident.)

So- whatever works for you- let us know.

Edit: was that enough authority? "I'm often wrong, but NEVER in doubt!"

[Bitts]

Thanks RootCause, there times when its hard to see through your own bias. Like almost everything else in this hobby. It does seem to come down to the personal experiences that you bring to a situation. Since I'm normally carrying climbing equipment, I tend to dual purpose as much as I can. Which in this case seems to have completely negated looking at things like the MSH & such. My entire suspension is built around clipping to eyelets. Using Amsteel to cut bulk rather than weight.

[canoebie]

Hi Bitts,

Some history of the whoopie & marlin spike hitch (MSH) help here, I think. When whoopie slings were first being checked into for use in hammock suspension, the thoughts were that they could be used to speed setup and lighten pack weight. The MSH can be tied really quickly, almost foolproof-ly, and can use a local stick or almost anything else as the toggle (marlin spike) to hold the hitch. This results in a fast, strong suspension that lightens the pack because you're not carrying climbing-rated metal rings or carabiners.

The original poster of this thread asked about using a carabiner to replace the stick/toggle in the MSH. (Ostensibly to reduce the risk of the whoopie slipping off the hitch.) The good news is: you can. You can also use a clove hitch to replace the MSH. There are no hard-and-fast rules, just some commonly-used techniques, followed by encouragement to play with them and discover what works best for you.

I've switched from the MSH to the Dutch Buckle.(seen here). Now I don't have to tie ANY knot (and frankly, I'm a huge fan of knots & ropework), it's light, fast setup, and bombproof. (I've got pictures of four Boy Scouts goofing around in my WB Traveller, with the Dutch Buckles and whoopie slings holding them all without incident.)

So- whatever works for you- let us know.

Edit: was that enough authority? "I'm often wrong, but NEVER in doubt!"

Excellent post. The only time I use a biner as a toggle is if I want to hang something from my straps, like a stuff sack, otherwise I use a stick because it is minimalist and quick.

[Owl]

I saw how Towellie uses this setup at the KC area hang last weekend. I like it...quite a bit actually. I toss and turn over a lot in the hammock...and have had the concern that I might bounce enough to let enough slack form in the whoopie sling to cause it to pop free of the knot/toggle setup.

What Towellie suggests allows the exact same setup as you would anytime with the whoopies, but removes the chance that the sling could come up off the knot/toggle.

Not to mention...the other possible uses of carrying a couple of lightweight, climbing 'biners makes the minor weight of a couple of ounces well worth it in my opinion.

I'll be stopping by Backwoods this weekend to pick up a couple of 'biners. There's some merit in this idea.