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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jsaults's Avatar
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    I look at it this way:

    The weight of goodwill is about two ounces (my estimate of the weight of two tree straps).

    "See here Mr/Ms Ranger? I am a responsible camper. I go overboard to protect the bark of the trees."

    I love Tinny's vids. but I think he is out in left field on this one.

    Jim

  2. #12
    Dutch's Avatar
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    I think we have the burden of making sure the tree is not damaged. Hammocks are very good at LNT but one concern. I believe the concern is valid but even if it isn't we have to give others the utmost confidence that we are not worse for the environment in any way because there are those that will use the idea that we are harmfup to the trees to validate not allowing hammocks in parks.
    I hung without a strap and it damaged teh bark. I now use strap every time.

    Tinny sure does make great stoves.
    Peace Dutch
    GA>ME 2003


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  3. #13
    Senior Member Hooch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowhike View Post
    Tinny should stick to stove building until he learns a little more about hammocks
    "If you play a Nicleback song backwards, you'll hear messages from the devil. Even worse, if you play it forward, you'll hear Nickleback." - Dave Grohl

  4. #14
    SlowBro's Avatar
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    I agree with the majority of you that from a PR stand point, if nothing else, we need to endorse straps. Tinny may be right that for some folks in his wt category there is probably no or only marginal harm to the trees. However, seems that we can make a better case with land managers like Rangers, etc. by continuing to use straps.
    -SlowBro
    "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."-Theodore Roosevelt

  5. #15
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
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    Yep, perception is King. Even though I don't buy the theory that it doesn't hurt the trees, it still makes sense to use the straps to promote warm fuzzy feelings with the folks that make the rules...and the public in general.

    Also, barbed-wire, chains, ropes, etc are static for the most part; they don't move. Hammock suspensions are dynamic when in use by a single person, unless that person doesn't move at all in the hammock. That changes the force calculations, something I'll leave to the people that actually like math. Plus, you may have 7 different people hanging 7 different hammocks from basically the same location on a tree when looking at trails like the AT. I completely agree with slowhike's assessment that the possibility of health issues for the trees as a result of our activities outweigh any slight weight penalty we absorb.
    Trust nobody!

  6. #16
    hangNyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post

    Tinny sure does make great stoves.
    Nice!
    RON

    A tree's a tree. How many more do you need to look at? ~ Ronald Reagan

  7. #17
    kayak karl's Avatar
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    this is why i don't watch any of the videos. they come across as "HOW TO" rather then "HOW I DO"
    "Tenting is equivalent to a bum crawling into a cardboard box, hammocking is an art" KK

  8. #18
    Senior Member pndwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    you may have 7 different people hanging 7 different hammocks from basically the same location on a tree when looking at trails like the AT.
    This was my thought too. Campgrounds at parks get camped at (and the trees hung from) time and time again. These trees will be around longer than us and most grow slowly so the same areas will be subject to rope/straps many times over the years. Especially as more people hammock.
    Theres nothing like danglin in dixie!!!!

    Murphy's Law: When one toilet breaks they all break.....its all a buncha crap.

    Im an educated idiot. The more I learn the less I know.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by cevans View Post
    I have seen trees with 1 inch cable wrapped around them and they grow over it, I have seen lots of trees with barbed wire in them and fencing and they grow threw it, nails, spikes, you name it, lots of saw mills saw thru steel and ruin lots of blades,,Trees are pretty resilient. I think for the most however, to appease all the enviromentals, the national parks people, the state parks people, and to promote hammock hanging as a safe and enviromental friendly way of backpacking and to take away any doubt whatso ever,,,we are better off to use a tree strap. Its a small weight penality that we should have to pay to promote our sport of hanging. Just my 2 cents.
    None of the above are the problem. As you say, trees can grow around things. The reason for using straps is to reduce the point load on the tree's inner cambium layer. That is the layer that transports sap up and down the tree trunk. If that is sufficiently damaged the tree dies. The thinner the line around the tree the higher the load per unit area and the more likely the inner layer will be crushed. Using flat webbing increases the area for a given weight so decreases the internal pressure load per unit area.
    If you need a visual aid think of a wire frame cheese cutter. The wire goes through the cheese relatively easily because the force per unit area is high on the thin wire for a mild pull on the handle. Try holding the wire and pulling the handle through the cheese. Start gently, the fingers you save may be your own. ;-)
    Last edited by nothermark; 10-12-2011 at 18:40. Reason: added smiley to lighten it up.

  10. #20
    MAD777's Avatar
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    There are lots of variables in all this including the diameter of the tree.

    Let's take a 6" diameter tree (the smallest I'm willing to trust) and recognize that the force is on the back side of the tree, the back semi-circle. Using 1" wide straps, that is a surface area of 10 square inches.

    Me and my hammock weigh 200 pounds. At a 30 degree hang that translates to 200 pounds of force on each end of the hammock suspension lines. So, that 200 pounds is spread over 10 square inches, which becomes 20 pounds per square inch pressure.

    Now, go get a cast iron dutch oven and balance it on your head on one of it's little legs. That's about 20 pounds per square inch.
    The same scenario using Amsteel would be significantly more than 100 pounds per square inch.

    So, what's the moral of this story? Tinny needs to go back to making excellent stoves!
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

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