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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Can you clarify a little on the " PG vs. down provided a combination of improved wind and insulation, but more on the wind chill reduction end. "? Exactly what were you comparing there and what differences did you observe, if any?
    Bill
    Just a guess based on more mass/density for any wind if any to leak through in the PG bag of the same warmth rating as the down bag. Considering how little compared to the Mtn Hardware bag the Snow Lion compress it will be interesting to see if used as a "pad" and as a bag if there is any difference. The shell material of the Snow Lion seems to be of a stiffer denser weave than either the Marmot down or Snow Lion bag.

  2. #22
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    I won't debate that you felt a comfort boost from laying on your sleeping bag. But the title of the thread is "Down vs. Synthetic in a hammock." So, I am going to advocate down.

    You give the example comparing your synthetic bag and UQ combo to adding clothing and/or using a pad, but never consider using a thicker down UQ which would be more compressible and lighter. Or a sock like Jeff designed. Or a tarptent or hammock hut. All of these options are providing me with the ~10* boost that you are after here with either less weight, or more functionality than the synthetic bag.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowhike View Post
    I think Billy Bob has a very good point & i agree.
    I have no doubt what so ever that there would be a very notable difference in having a sleeping bag between you & the hammock, even if it is compressed. Matter of fact, I'll guarantee it<G>.
    And i have no doubt that a synthetic bag would provide a better layer of warmth in this fashion than a similar down bag.
    maybe not a great amount, but some.

    A compressed layer of insulation is still going to going to be there & it will still account for a very thin layer of insulation value.
    And that's the point that Billy Bob was making.

    I work outdoors year round & i know the difference that a shirt lined w/ a very thin layer of sewn through synthetic insulation can make.

    Of course these thin layers have their limitations, but Billy Bob has already said that.
    I agree with all of that. I can even tell a slight difference with an empty two layer hammock of 1.1 oz rip stop nylon versus an empty single layer hammock of 1.9 oz rip stop nylon. It's not much, but it can make a difference when you are trying to cool off in hot weather. Many people over the years have pointed out that synthetic sleeping bags add more warmth on the bottom side in hammocks because they don't compress as much and some have even suggested hybrid sleeping bags with down on top and synthetic on bottom.

    When you are looking for slight differences things like adding a light weight nylon shirt helps if you are just wearing a t-shirt. But that same nylon shirt isn't going to be much help if you are wearing a medium weight jacket when you need a some serious insulation. Sometimes it is just a matter of perspective of what something is worth.

    And how difficult it is to get inside a sleeping bag in a hammock varies with the individual and what all they are using. I have done it many times with all kinds of bottom side insulation, do it as Billy Bob suggests and for the same reason-- a cinched up sleeping bag with a proper fitting hood keeps me warmer than a sleeping bag used as a quilt. Sometimes getting into the sleeping bag is a struggle and other times it isn't much to it at all. I think the biggest variable for me is how long it has been since I have done it because there are definitely approaches that work better or worse. It does take a little planning. There often is more than one way to do things.
    Last edited by Youngblood; 05-22-2008 at 07:08.
    Youngblood AT2000

  4. #24
    Senior Member Tobit's Avatar
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    Youngblood, what do you think about putting a sheet of endura silk between you and the hammock to sleep on? Endura silk, not to be mixed up with fine silk, is quite strong, has excellent moisture wicking abilities, and can also add a few degrees of insulation but yet very cool in the summer as well. I'm thinking of making an endura silk sheet to sleep on in my new hammock. Should only way a couple ounces (if that).

  5. #25
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobit View Post
    Youngblood, what do you think about putting a sheet of endura silk between you and the hammock to sleep on? Endura silk, not to be mixed up with fine silk, is quite strong, has excellent moisture wicking abilities, and can also add a few degrees of insulation but yet very cool in the summer as well. I'm thinking of making an endura silk sheet to sleep on in my new hammock. Should only way a couple ounces (if that).
    Hey Tobit, welcome back, btw. Where do you order your endura silk from? Have you got an online source? That sounds really interesting for summer.


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
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    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Tobit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCPatrick View Post
    Where do you order your endura silk from? Have you got an online source? That sounds really interesting for summer.
    I haven't found a source for raw fabric (yet). If I can't find raw fabric here in the US, I would probably have JagBags make me what I am looking for. JagBags make very nice sleeping bag liners out of both fine and endura silk. They are very nicely priced compared to similar sleeping bag liners I've seen here in the states. Prices include shipping as well.

  7. #27
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobit View Post
    JagBags make very nice sleeping bag liners out of both fine and endura silk.
    Interesting. Their products page actually lists an drawstring-bottomed mummy made for a HH as an example custom order.

    A special Mummy liner for a Hennessey Hammock with open bottom closed with a draw-string.

    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobit View Post
    Youngblood, what do you think about putting a sheet of endura silk between you and the hammock to sleep on? Endura silk, not to be mixed up with fine silk, is quite strong, has excellent moisture wicking abilities, and can also add a few degrees of insulation but yet very cool in the summer as well. I'm thinking of making an endura silk sheet to sleep on in my new hammock. Should only way a couple ounces (if that).
    I don't know how it would do. With the 2 layers of rip stop nylon (RSN) I use, it could be the breathability-- how well it blocks any breeze, how well it wicks away perspiration, how it handles evaporative cooling, etc. All of the material I used on those hammocks have a Durable Watter Repellent finish (DWR) and are probably calendered as well. RSN that is calendered and has DWR isn't anywhere near as breathable as just RSN.

    There are times when you want more breathability (basically when you are trying to cool off) and times when you don't (basically when you are trying to keep warm). I wish I could snap my fingers or use a small remote and change uncoated RSN to DWR with calendering or to silnylon at my command.
    Youngblood AT2000

  9. #29
    Senior Member cavediver2's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Hector;63194]

    This is another "advantage" which doesn't really exist. I am not going to sleep in a wet sleeping bag regardless what it's stuffed with (who would want to?!?), so what's warmer when it's soaked makes no difference to me whatsoever.


    I have in the past slept in a wet synth sleeping bag because of misfortunes that happen while in the back country. In fact I have worn them tell they were dry or nearly dry because it was either that or freeze to death. I would have done the same thing with down but it would have been harder to do and take a lot longer to do.

    lost my pack out of a boat once. and fell fording a stream hip high and me and pack went down stream. and both times I was glad to have synth bag's I after both of those times I have said and always will go camping/backpacking/boat camping and the like with a synthitic bag in my pack.

    No down for me.

  10. #30
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    This isn't really a down vs. synthetic discussion. We all know what the end result of that debate is.

    I think the point of this was to discuss the advantage of using a synthetic bag versus a down bag with regards to the insulation either choice would provide while compressed under bodyweight. Correct me if I am wrong, BB58! I agree that the synthetic bag may well give you a 5-10* boost depending on how thick the bag is. And, I also agree that the synthetic bag will be more advantageous than the down which will compress more and provide less insulation.

    However, using synthetic insulation like a pad is not efficiant. It works. But I am trying to imagine a situation where this would be applicable, and I can just always imagine it would be better to use equipment meant to deal with the conditions that are present. If it is 20* with a wind that would bring down the temp, why not use the ~24 oz. that is on the bottom of the bag you are laying on to boost the UQ or add size to the tarp? If your UQ goes down to ~20*, and it will be less than that, why not make an UQ that goes down to ~0*? Or add insulation between the UQ, and the hammock (using an UQ that is made using differential baffling, of course )? I have 24 oz. to play with.

    Adding a windblock over the quilt or around the entire hammock, or using an all encompasing tarp or "hammock hut" would be a more advantageous approach. Or a thicker UQ. (UQ's don't have to be made of down synth fans!)That way you are either using less weight or getting more functionality for your weight.

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