knotty's solomon bar knot nacrabiner?

[motorapido]

Hey, Knotty, question about your solomon bar knot closure on the nacrabiner that you pictured in the recent thread that got bumped about my nacrabiner jam-up. A regular nacrabiner is self-tightening/closing. Based on the photo that you showed, the solomon bar knot would slide to close the nacrabiner, but it could easly slide open, too, right? Or am I missing something? Is the solomon bar closure good just for nacrabiners that aren't holding people or critical items? Please advise. As always, I really appreciate your posts!

[Beanie]

you beat me to the question.

How does the soloman bar hold when the biner is under tension?

[GrizzlyAdams]

I use a whipping knot in the same way. With a technique (illustrated in this video, starting around 3:30 I think), the whipping knot takes a fair bit of pushing and pulling to move. The bit that makes it stiff is the line that, unlike a normal whipping knot, goes between the two strands of the nacrabiner loop. It creates friction, and the knot doesn't move when the loop is under tension.

I have less experience with the solomon bar, but imagine that if it is tight and long, that will have a similar effect.

[Bubba]

I don't have any experience with solomon bars but I have used the same whipping knot as Grizz and I also have had no issues with slipping. If the sliding knot is made tight enough to begin with, they should stay in place reliably.

[Roadrunnr72]

I would think that when under tension, the weight would still be on the amsteel. The soloman bar knot would just keep it from falling off when no tension is on it and keep the loop tight around the knot. I am sure Knotty will chime in when he sees this.

[Dos]

you beat me to the question.

How does the soloman bar hold when the biner is under tension?

ditto

now, that I have watched the entire HFDHS video.....

[Theo]

The solomon bar knot or whipping knot not only closes the loop but it primarily keeps the diamond knot from rolling out of the loop when under tension. There is actually very little pressure on the sliding knot in the direction of opening. Sort of like a marlin spike hitch.

I've used both knots on my suspension and the knot has to be rather loose for the diamond knot to force the slider open. I once used a bread twist tie wrapped around twice just to see how strong the slider had to be and it held my 250 lbs. for about 30 min. without failure. It held without noticeable stress on the twist tie but I wouldn't trust it for regular use. My Dutch clips are still the most arthritic friendly system.

[TiredFeet]

I've been using the Solomon Bar knot on soft shackles and whoopie slings on the Bridge suspension since TeeDee first thought of the idea.

As far as the Solomon Bar sliding - it's has never been a problem. When I first started using the Solomon Bar, I tied them so tight it was difficult to slide the bar on the very slippery Amsteel. Since then I have found it better to tie the bar just tight enough to hold but still easily slid on the rope with cold, clumsy fingers. Experience teaches you how tight that is.

The forces on the loop are such that they are trying to spread open the loop and thus spread the bar. The force trying to move the bar along the rope are small and easily overcome even with a Solomon Bar that is not really tight.

As for the question on how long to make the Solomon Bar: I have found that a bar as small as 1/4" to 1/2" long is sufficient. Making it longer doesn't really improve how well it holds.

I like the soft shackle using the Solomon Bar much better than the traditional soft shackle made by splicing. The soft shackle made with the Solomon bar can be opened easily with one hand, even with bulky mittens on or with cold clumsy fingers. Also, the soft shackle with the Solomon Bar can be easily opened even with the soft shackle fully loaded. Something that is almost impossible to do with a traditional soft shackle and in my experience the Solomon Bar soft shackle is just as secure as the traditional soft shackle.

[Roadrunnr72]

What are you using to make the soloman bar? Will zing-it or the Marshalltown mason line work?

[Bubba]

What are you using to make the soloman bar? Will zing-it or the Marshalltown mason line work?

I use similar stuff for my whipping knot. Can't see it not working for a solomon bar.