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  1. #31
    2new2hang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLRider View Post
    I know this probably goes without saying, but I'm gonna say it anyway: DON'T try this inside your tarp the first time you do it. Fighting a fire from inside a cloth shelter is not going to be fun if something goes wrong.
    Trust me, I was playing with this stove out in my tiny excuse for a backyard many times before I had the cookies to put it into my silnylon tarp. Even when I did throw it in there, I squatted next to it with my hands up in a karate gesture, twirling back and forth on my heels looking for any sign of spark or smoke I also let that baby burn out long before I drifted off to sleep, no sense in looking like a big doobie strung between two trees when they found my cooked remains...
    2new2hang

    ____________________________________________

    I know not how to aid you, save in the assurance of one of mature age, and much severe experience, that you can not fail, if you resolutely determine, that you will not.

    Abraham Lincoln
    --July 22, 1860

  2. #32
    Prefers life at 12 MPH. FLRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2new2hang View Post
    Trust me, I was playing with this stove out in my tiny excuse for a backyard many times before I had the cookies to put it into my silnylon tarp. Even when I did throw it in there, I squatted next to it with my hands up in a karate gesture, twirling back and forth on my heels looking for any sign of spark or smoke I also let that baby burn out long before I drifted off to sleep, no sense in looking like a big doobie strung between two trees when they found my cooked remains...
    Heh. I can see a new Cheech and Chong Hammock Special coming up...

    Yeah, silnylon isn't something to play around with near fire.

  3. #33
    Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2new2hang View Post
    Ok, so thus far, to cut down the winter condensation issues, I've figured I need to:
    1. Ventilate, ventilate, ventilate.

    2. Maybe try a bit of vapor barrior usage.

    3. Use some sort of bib to keep condensation off of me (while making sure not to choke myself to death).

    4. Dress lighter when hitting the sack.

    5. Put a pan/wood/mylar coverd medium under my stove to keep the China Syndrome from happening.

    6. Pick up a better collapsable saw to keep from having a stroke while cutting wood for the stove, thereby illiminating the need to worry about any of this, and only having to focus on picking up some extra life insurance for my family.
    You must have great reading comprehension. All I got was "stick your head in your pants" from the TZ link.

    Nice set up by the way.

  4. #34
    2new2hang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    You must have great reading comprehension. All I got was "stick your head in your pants" from the TZ link.

    Nice set up by the way.
    Yeah, I thought my list sounded a little better. Besides, not sure after hiking out in the snow for a while if I want my head anywhere near the inside of my pants. Think I'd rather have condensation.
    2new2hang

    ____________________________________________

    I know not how to aid you, save in the assurance of one of mature age, and much severe experience, that you can not fail, if you resolutely determine, that you will not.

    Abraham Lincoln
    --July 22, 1860

  5. #35
    sargevining's Avatar
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    If the internal temp of your shelter was around 65* as you said, a pan for the stove probably won't be enough to keep the snow on the floor from melting. The description of the amount of frost and its location indicates to me a more general dispersal and greater amount of condensation than what comes from breathing. Perhaps keeping the fire at a level that puts the internal temp of the shelter at just above freezing would be advisable, or a full floor for the shelter-----which would be tricky as it would have to be a non-flammable VB of some sort.

  6. #36
    2new2hang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargevining View Post
    If the internal temp of your shelter was around 65* as you said, a pan for the stove probably won't be enough to keep the snow on the floor from melting. The description of the amount of frost and its location indicates to me a more general dispersal and greater amount of condensation than what comes from breathing. Perhaps keeping the fire at a level that puts the internal temp of the shelter at just above freezing would be advisable, or a full floor for the shelter-----which would be tricky as it would have to be a non-flammable VB of some sort.
    The stove does indeed keep the internal temp in this shelter at an unbelievably warm range. I am more than sure this helped to soak things up as the interior air cooled to reach the external temps in the middle of the night. When I awoke, my water sitting on top of my gear was almost frozen solid, so it cooled very quickly.
    Oddly enough, outside of my Clark (in the tarp shelter) there was very little condensation. The majority of my problem was inside my Clark. I think ventilating the thing and wearing less clothing will help to alleviate much of the problem. We'll see soon enough. Going back up in February and temps are much colder with snow being much deeper. Should be interesting.
    2new2hang

    ____________________________________________

    I know not how to aid you, save in the assurance of one of mature age, and much severe experience, that you can not fail, if you resolutely determine, that you will not.

    Abraham Lincoln
    --July 22, 1860

  7. #37
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2new2hang View Post
    Oddly enough, outside of my Clark (in the tarp shelter) there was very little condensation. The majority of my problem was inside my Clark.
    Then the China Syndrome had little to do with it.
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
    www.MollyMacGear.com

  8. #38
    2new2hang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    Then the China Syndrome had little to do with it.
    Yes Sir, that stands to reason. Has to be a ventilation issue inside the Clark. It was certainly warm in there before I bailed out to answer natures call at 6am. I imagine being bundled up enough for an Arctic winter didn't help matters. Seemed logical at the time...
    2new2hang

    ____________________________________________

    I know not how to aid you, save in the assurance of one of mature age, and much severe experience, that you can not fail, if you resolutely determine, that you will not.

    Abraham Lincoln
    --July 22, 1860

  9. #39
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2new2hang View Post
    Yes Sir, that stands to reason. Has to be a ventilation issue inside the Clark. It was certainly warm in there before I bailed out to answer natures call at 6am. I imagine being bundled up enough for an Arctic winter didn't help matters. Seemed logical at the time...
    So does the weather shield have any kind of vent opening near your face?

    Do you think you were warm enough to actually sweat? Even if you did not notice sweat, it could have been absorbed into your various layers of insulation.

    It would be great to know how much each of your insulation layers weighed once you got home. Particularly if there was no time spent trying to dry things out in the field. This can be very revealing info. If you were overheating and sweating into your insulation, that would have become a big problem on a multiday trip.

    I have a friend that had no apparent moisture problems on 2 consecutive trips to western mountains. Nothing ever seemed to get wet, but by the end of both trips ( ~ 5 days ea. ), he became quite concerned with the decreasing loft of his down gear. To the point that he was trying to get them dried out in the motel room before packing them for the trip home. Now that I think of it, he is a very warm sleeper and warm natured person who is quick to sweat.

    I did not notice any problems on those trips. But I was all synthetic on the 1st trip in the damp Olympics of WA state ( HHSS and Polarguard bag). On the second trip, we both used down PeaPods, though he used a 55 rated pod boosted with TQ and pad under the hammock, while I used a 20F pod plus whatever light weight insulating clothing I had. I did use a VB ( space blanket) inside the pod under the hammock, but not on top. I did not weigh anything, but I had zero apparent loft change in the pod or down vest. My friend noticed significant loss of loft for the 2nd time.

    Though I did not use a VB on top(bottom only), I was certainly never over heated on top. With no TQ, and only using my clothes to fill any top gaps or as a neck collar to decrease warm air escaping the vent, I was just barely warm enough at the trips coldest (first) night of 27F. I don't know the other nights temps, but we felt they were warmer, with sleet and snow on some of them. On these nights I was never close to cold, but also not overly warm for sure. So sweating, even very lightly, was unlikely

    Now I am wondering if my bud was overly warm every night? He did say he was PLENTY warm all nights. Maybe the dif in our experiences was he was warm enough to sweat just a bit all night x 5 nights?

    One advantage of a VB, especially clothing, is any sweat is immediately obvious, it is not wicked away into insulation. You are maybe not enjoying the wet sensation, but even if you actually sweat, it stays inside the VB. In theory anyway, you learn to recognize impending overheat/sweat, and ventilate to avoid that. But even if you don't, it stays next to your skin and outside your insulation.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  10. #40
    Cali's Avatar
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    This has been very interesting and very informative and quite funny. Thank you all for the info and entertainment. I have the NX-250 and when it is cold, I always unzip the WS just a bit above my face. No condensation issues. I have only experienced low 30's so far.
    PitaPata Dog tickers

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