Pad at 58 degrees?

**thatscguy** · 05-23-2008, 12:38

Do I need a CCF pad with an expected low of 58 degrees? Tried the pad out yesterday for the first time and at this point I am not a big can, lol so if I can go with out I am going commando.

**angrysparrow** · 05-23-2008, 12:45

I would be very hesitant to not use any under-insulation at that temp. Most people need some insulation on the bottom of a hammock below 65-70º.

**thatscguy** · 05-23-2008, 12:50

Thanks for the info.

**Tobit** · 05-23-2008, 13:29

Originally Posted by angrysparrow

Most people need some insulation on the bottom of a hammock below 65-70º.

Except neo.

**angrysparrow** · 05-23-2008, 13:35

Originally Posted by Tobit

Except neo.

I think even Neo uses insulation at those temps...but that same insulation reportedly takes him to single digits.

**BillyBob58** · 05-23-2008, 14:06

I'd say most people will use some kind of insulation below 70* and would be very uncomfortable at 58* with nothing underneath. You might want to view the thread on synthetic vs down in a hammock. It has a little test where I was quite toasty at, coincidentally, 58*, without a pad. Instead only the lower half of a Polarguard sleeping bag underneath me. Now, it was a winter bag and it is very unlikely that you would carry a bag of that weight if you were expecting it to be no lower than 58*, so most of the info is more of a theoretical nature.

However, you might have a lighter weight synthetic bag with you, and combined with wearing something like a fleece jacket, who knows- you might get by at 58* without using a pad.

A lot depends on you and how cold natured you are. I have a very hot natured buddy that got by in the Mountains of Wyoming for a week with no pad. He borrowed my back up pad one night, but he could not keep it under him so he gave up on it. He had a 15* Mountain Hardware synthetic bag. The first night was 22*, and he was pretty miserable. The other nights probably averaged lows in the 30s to lower 40s, and he got by OK. I don't think he was actually warm or comfortable, but he got by without too much complaining. He was not cold enough to bother more than one night with the pad. But the next year he had a Big Agnes bag with pad.

So if you use some kind of synthetic bag, as opposed to an top quilt with zero insulation under you, and maybe with a synthetic jacket, you MIGHT/MAYBE be OK without a pad. Probably most folks are going to need the pad.

**eugeneius** · 05-24-2008, 09:13

Originally Posted by thatscguy

Do I need a CCF pad with an expected low of 58 degrees? Tried the pad out yesterday for the first time and at this point I am not a big can, lol so if I can go with out I am going commando.

I am far short of experience compared to the majority of the frequent lurkers here, however near 60F seems pretty temperate to me! I would think a good thermal base layer of merino wool or some sort of polypro and a pair of good wool socks, a lightweight fleece jacket and a beenie would be sufficient, along with your appropriately rated sleeping bag, if sleeping in clothing doesn't bother you of course. I just finished a trip up in the Gila Wilderness and slept at an altitude above 10,000 ft and the low dipped around the freezing mark, I used a 3/4 length self-inflatable Thermarest (deflated), a bag rated to 30F and a good combo of clothing and I was toasty, with no tarp, single layer hammock and no underquilt of any sort. I think I'm pretty cold blooded too. Just my thoughts. Maybe just bring the pad in the event the chill creeps underneath you in the middle of the night, this could be a good gauge for future hangs.

Hope you figure out your set up, no pad is definitely more comfortable and natural. Try putting silicone dots along the bottom of your pad using clear silicone caulking, it keeps your pad from sliding along the silnylon.

**Narwhalin** · 05-24-2008, 09:52

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

I'd say most people will use some kind of insulation below 70* and would be very uncomfortable at 58* with nothing underneath. You might want to view the thread on synthetic vs down in a hammock. It has a little test where I was quite toasty at, coincidentally, 58*, without a pad. Instead only the lower half of a Polarguard sleeping bag underneath me. Now, it was a winter bag and it is very unlikely that you would carry a bag of that weight if you were expecting it to be no lower than 58*, so most of the info is more of a theoretical nature.

Unless you are going to go read that thread, I would like to give a bit of counterpoint, here.

BB58 did get some comfort at 58* from laying on his winter synthetic bag. Tell me, are you planning on using your 0* bag to combat tempatures 60* higher than that?

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

However, you might have a lighter weight synthetic bag with you, and combined with wearing something like a fleece jacket, who knows- you might get by at 58* without using a pad.

Is a three pound 0* bag a "lighter weight synthetic?" I think this is misleading. Even the 15* bag in the example below is probably at least 2.5 lbs., and is serious overkill if you are going to be in temps that are 45* higher than that!

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

A lot depends on you and how cold natured you are. I have a very hot natured buddy that got by in the Mountains of Wyoming for a week with no pad. He borrowed my back up pad one night, but he could not keep it under him so he gave up on it. He had a 15* Mountain Hardware synthetic bag. The first night was 22*, and he was pretty miserable. The other nights probably averaged lows in the 30s to lower 40s, and he got by OK. I don't think he was actually warm or comfortable, but he got by without too much complaining. He was not cold enough to bother more than one night with the pad. But the next year he had a Big Agnes bag with pad.

See, this guy said, screw that, I want my pad back! See, this is what happens when you try to use this philosophy in the real world at temps that get closer to what the bag is rated to.

And here is the real sales pitch:

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

So if you use some kind of synthetic bag, as opposed to an top quilt with zero insulation under you, and maybe with a synthetic jacket, you MIGHT/MAYBE be OK without a pad. Probably most folks are going to need the pad.

Weak.

Use a pad or an underquilt for warmth underneath.

**Fiddleback** · 05-24-2008, 10:43

I vote for the 70° limit based on my napping in the backyard on a rope hammock.

On the other hand; a simple, 7oz, 3/8" pad can get me well below freezing, given the rest of my sleep system. Other than the issue of bulk, that's a very small price to pay for the insulation benefit.

FB

**BillyBob58** · 05-24-2008, 10:53

Originally Posted by Narwhalin

Unless you are going to go read that thread, I would like to give a bit of counterpoint, here.

BB58 did get some comfort at 58* from laying on his winter synthetic bag. Tell me, are you planning on using your 0* bag to combat tempatures 60* higher than that?......................Weak.

Right, Narwhalin, just like I said:

Now, it was a winter bag and it is very unlikely that you would carry a bag of that weight if you were expecting it to be no lower than 58*, so most of the info is more of a theoretical nature.............................
However, you might have a lighter weight synthetic bag with you, and combined with wearing something like a fleece jacket, who knows- you might get by at 58* without using a pad...................
Probably most folks are going to need the pad.................

The point is that whatever top insulation he is using, if it is a synthetic bag rather than a top quilt, and if he has a fleece jacket with him, and IF he is a pretty warm sleeper, he MIGHT be OK at no lower than 58*. Considering that he is not a big fan of pads to start with. But let me repeat:
Probably most folks are going to need the pad.