Originally Posted by
BillyBob58
I agree that it is wrong. I don't think there is anything about hydrophobic insulation that will keep vapor or wicked moisture from freezing once it reaches outer layers that are cold enough. I have woke up after sleeping under the stars, in enough ice covered Polarguard bags, to know this for a fact. However, there is also nothing to keep it from freezing in the outer layers of a down bag. The synthetic bag won't loose any loft from this and won't when the ice melts and will dry way, way quicker.
You are welcome, glad you found it interesting!
You are singing my song! I have found VBs useful since the early 80s. In recent years, mainly under me in my HHSS or PeaPod. After a week in damp cold weather, zero loft lost in my PeaPod. My PeaPod and down/ non-VB using friend was not so lucky, on 2 different trips. But I have new VB clothing I am dieing to use if we would ever get any cold weather.
I have slept the night through in a wet synthetic bag with wet clothes, as I said in my above post. It was pretty unpleasant until body heat dried everything out, but I'm pretty sure a wet down bag and clothes would have been much worse, and might not have dried much at all during the night. (never had this misfortune with down, so can't say for sure NOLS would not allow down on their trips back then, at least not my instructors) Plus, I have tested my very light PG jacket by soaking it and going for a ~ 1.5 mile hike in the rain/sleet and wind. Stayed warm the entire hike and was bone dry by the end of the hike. I have not tried that with down but somebody should test it. Plus see the video in the OP.
Another time the foot of my PG bag and foot end of my HH OCF HHSS pad were SOAKED from condensation. I mean dripping water! I never even knew they were wet, feet and all else stayed totally warm. I ran into the water when I got out of the bottom entry next morning. It was time to get going. Stuffed them both in my pack wet, no drying out, hiked all day, both were dry when I set up that afternoon. If my down UQ or Golight UL 20 TQ had been that soaked, would I have stayed as warm and would they have been bone dry with full loft after a wet day in my pack? Maybe, but I don't think so. But who knows?
I love my down stuff, and usually choose it for hammock hanging, but I don't think it can really compete with Polarguard if getting wet ( from rai/snow or condensation/sweat) is a serious threat. Wet PG s*cks, wet down can be life threatening. It is better in every other way, but worse in that one way. But if you can either guarantee keeping it dry, or are able to bail if it hits the fan, no reason not to always use down.
Amen, Bro! And I swing both ways when it comes to down vs synthetic. I have lots of both. Like my Climashield Yeti- whoohoo! Which, if memory serves, the very experienced hiker Cannibal, on his AT hike, got his synthetic Yeti wet more than once. What about that, Cannibal? But it was not a serious problem, because, well- Climashield!
That is really not a terrible weight for a minus 60 bag, heavy duty Wiggy's bag or not!
I tend to think (but don't know) a down bag would not have done as well, based on my friend's daily decreasing loft problem when he was neither getting wet from rain or snow or getting in his bag wet. Even when we could keep our bags dry in our WP stuff sacks which, after 3 weeks were proving not all that WP, keeping ourselves dry (sweat plus rain/snow) was a different matter. Getting in the bag wet happened more than once for all of us. One day, a young lady on the NOLS course- during that summer snow storm- slipped on a hill on the snow/ice, and slid a few feet down into a drainage. On her back with a pack way to heavy for her(climbing ropes, ice axes, helmets etc). Until we could get to her, she was like an upside down turtle. On her back- pack and sleeping bag under her- in ~6" water and could not get up. ( I guess at some point she would have unstrapped her belt/shoulder straps, but we got to her and pulled her up 1st, but I think she was kind of having a good cry) She was a wet one, as the snow kept blowing. I think she was better off to be fully covered in fleece with a PG bag(even if wet) to get into after she pitched camp in the blowing snow that night.
I didn't really intend to start a synthetic vs down debate, though that's fine if folks want to debate that. For me it's just a matter of the right tool for the job, which is not always the same tool. ( 90% for me is down, even more so if extreme cold is more likely than extreme wet, particularly with VB ). My main question was: is Wiggy's really any better than other synthetics? And this impressive video had me wondering this again. (also remember: Wiggy's bags are not only heavy due to synthetics, but also due to heavy duty construction)
But, have Y'all ever thought of this: how much extra trouble and gear weight do you have just trying to guarantee that your down stays dry? Dry bags and stuff sack liners and bigger tarps and such? I just don't worry about that sort of thing near as much with my Climashield UQ or Polarguard bag, though I do take reasonable care to keep them dry. Point? Just that all of that might slightly reduce the weight advantage of down, though not so much the volume advantage.
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