Thermoflect Ideas for use

[JohnSawyer]

SO. There's a group buy underway. In keeping with HF rules, I'm starting a thread here to discuss the uses of Thermoflect thermal blankets, here in the DIY section.

Here's a snippet from the group-buy thread, which should be discussed here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TFC Rick
I must have assumed it meant per square yard when I read that. We use these blankets in the OR to keep folks warm. I have only played with a few. I sent some to another forum member who is a DIY magician (no pressure! lol) and we'll see what comes of it. I think they would work for lightweight style blankets. I have no idea of the durability or packability but they are very light and throw back alot of heat from your body.

Really looking forward to what comes from this. Thanks guys for always pushing ideas on here.
Crud... I have to DO something with these? I'm no magician... Illusionist? maybe... Heck, I got you fooled!

Yes, these are pretty light. Best I can tell it's a spun poly fabric that's been aluminized. They're "ok" warm, but IMHO, So Far, not as good as Insultex, but we'll see.

I have a test-bed UQ (ok, an UQ sized envelope of ripstop with drawstrings) I'm going to slide one in and see how warm it is... More to come...


Quote:
Originally Posted by TFC Rick
You know WV I'm not sure. I tried to blow on them and couldn't feel anything on the other side, but it may just be a really tight weave. They should be pretty useful considering.
Using the "breath test:" I don't think they're a vapor barrier, but pretty close, similar to IX, I think they'll breathe, but very little. more like a vapor resistor...

OK, Some details: the one I have is 4'x4', with rounded corners and a cutout for your head. If I ignore the cutout, and square it off, it's 16-sq ft = 1.78sq yds. Weight: 2.4oz. Oz/sq yd = 1.34oz. Of course with the missing fabric, it's probably more like 1.4-1.5oz/yd... so, yes, it's light, but not as light as 1.1 nylon.


Ideas for use:

If I had to guess, this will likely be similar to a space blanket when used between the hammock and an UQ, but with better breathability and a heck of a lot quieter. I'm wearing it like a cape, and it's definitely warm. It is hard to describe. It's not like having a blanket on you, it's like wearing a weak radiant space heater...

I wouldn't lay ON one of these, conduction will out-run reflection any day of the week. Reflectix has the advantage of being radiant reflector, and having some "loft" in a built-in air gap (ok, it's bubble wrap)... Try sitting on a space blanket on concrete... you'll still be cold...

Given their limited breathability, using one as an overcover (as sugessted above) will likely work well, but you'll need to leave SOME air holes to release moisture and get some air exchange.

In a survival situation, one of these built into the back wall of a lean-to would reflect fire-heat and keep you really warm...

I am going out on a limb here, but I am thinking this will work best when there's a small air gap between it and you. Super-form fitting and you will get conduction through the material. With an UQ, it would be best between the UQ and you, unless you're dealing with a lot of wind, then this on the outside would block the wind from robbing the heat from the UQ.

I like the Thermadrape UQ or TQ idea. I wonder how low you could go with just one, maybe 2 layers of this...

John

Other ideas?

[JohnSawyer]

Here's another few posts in no particular order:

Well John,

Based on the AMK Thermolite Bivy this stuff, when used correctly, should give 10F* extra warmth to a sleeping bag.

I've been pondering a TQ that wil be IX, Thermoflect, Ripstop, one layer of each. If my calcs & guesstimates are correct; it should come in around 12oz and be comfortable to 35-40F*

>>> This is data from the manufacturer, it's not breathable at all ...

"" In response to your new questions: Thermoflect is inherently impervious. However, when used in neonatal applications, overheating is not an issue as with straight polyethylene. We are working on MVTR testing but it is not yet complete. We receive very few reports of patient condensation. However, the potential is there. ""





*** And to the weight >>>

"" Thermoflect weighs 48 gsm which converts to 1.4156891895740817 ounces per sy. I hope this helps and I am sure the samples will clear up all the confusion. ""

So I'd say you're spot on here John ..

<<< And their reply to this


"" Thanks so much for checking! I look forward to seeing your magical silver devices ""



<< so be sure to post them up here .. I have forwarded this thread to them and they wanna' see the ideas the stem from here using their products ...

Yes, this is the commonly held belief with outdoors enthusiest. In the construction field, though, the radient barrier is put on the outside of the mass insulation. Because the insulation is still a thermal body radiating heat. The goal, for buildings anyway, is to keep the heat inside the insulation which is keeping the heat in the building.

http://www.radiantbarrier.com/faq.htm

Because the IX is such low density and so thin. It is my belief that it will have no effect on the thermoflects radient ability. I doubt any significant difference in warmth would be noted in either configuration.
Now if a person where to use the blanket with a lower rate quilt for colder temps. It would be most effective to put the thermoflect blanket on the outside. As with construction standards this will keep the heat in the TQ longer.
If used inside the TQ, you would feel warmth almost immediately but in the long-term you would get cold, I think. This would be because your body isn't able to heat the actual insulation in the TQ fast enough. That's the theory anyway.

Just so we cover all the possible permutations, I'd suggest ripstop close to you, then Thermoflect, then Ix. The ripstop is to prevent conductive heat loss from contact with the Thermoflect. Of course that may be duplicating the function of the thin fabric layer in the Thermoflect itself. I've been wondering how thick a layer you need to prevent conductive loss to other aluminized materials such as the shiny cuben or space blankets. (The Ix is just there to mess things up by being a vapor barrier on the outside. )

Aaron, I'm looking forward to trying my own combinations. Thanks for making this opportunity possible.

John, thanks for the measurements and ideas in Post #97 - exactly what we needed at this point. Can't wait to see what you make out of the larger sheets.

Just so we cover all the possible permutations, I'd suggest ripstop close to you, then Thermoflect, then Ix. The ripstop is to prevent conductive heat loss from contact with the Thermoflect. Of course that may be duplicating the function of the thin fabric layer in the Thermoflect itself. I've been wondering how thick a layer you need to prevent conductive loss to other aluminized materials such as the shiny cuben or space blankets. (The Ix is just there to mess things up by being a vapor barrier on the outside. )

Aaron, I'm looking forward to trying my own combinations. Thanks for making this opportunity possible.

John, thanks for the measurements and ideas in Post #97 - exactly what we needed at this point. Can't wait to see what you make out of the larger sheets.

[JohnSawyer]

Ok, so if you followed everything above...

I spoke to TFC Rick, ok, I PM'd him. He indicated the fabric NOT the silver side is put toward the patient. Makes sense from a moisture management perspective. I tried it both ways on my bare torso, and yes, silver side is like sitting on a vinyl car seat on a warm day...

The direction in the threads above seem to lend themselves to an UQ discussion.

I do have a no-sew PLUQ, an IX UQ, a KAQ Lost river, and a DIY kids sleeping bag conversion. All of these are roughly 3/4 quilts. The downside is I don't get a lot of cold nights. It rarely gets below 40 here at night...

Thoughts on tests? I'm willing to hack one of these up, maybe both, if I can put them to use.

[sargevining]

Gonna try it as a blanket at first, just to get an idea

[thehikingengineer]

I've been wondering for a while now if it would be possible to sew a more durable emergency-blanket type material like this to the bottom of a hammock as a loose second layer in order to eliminate the need for an under-quilt on cold nights. I'm a newbie so I have yet to really figure out what this whole "breathability" thing is about but I suspect that might interfere with it. Any thoughts?

[sargevining]

I've been wondering for a while now if it would be possible to sew a more durable emergency-blanket type material like this to the bottom of a hammock as a loose second layer in order to eliminate the need for an under-quilt on cold nights. I'm a newbie so I have yet to really figure out what this whole "breathability" thing is about but I suspect that might interfere with it. Any thoughts?

Basically, you have to get rid of the moisture your body creates through breathing and sweating. This is best done through evaporation. The challenge, therefore, is to have a way for mositure to migrate to the outside without soaking your insulation, your hammock, or your clothing.

There's some discussion going on here:

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=47785

regarding testing of the material and how to make it more breathable.