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  1. #21
    Senior Member bwg's Avatar
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    I have a number of tarps and found it can sometimes be difficult to protect ends from blowing rain with hex shaped or diamond shaped tarps. Wet sleeping bag, quilt, or underquilt can make for uncomfortable, long nights. Now I prefer a tarp with doors.

    I was curious to learn how much a tarp with doors would add to the overall weight. Given that you are considering a cuben tarp, I calculated potential weights to see what the savings would be using an 8x8 vs. a tarp with doors. Here's what I found based upon z-pack listed weights:

    (a) Tarp with Doors

    Oz -- Item
    6.50 -- Tarp with doors
    0.12 -- stuff stack
    1.76 -- spectra cord 1.5mm (0.88oz per 50 ft) x 2

    2.84 -- MSR ground hog stake (regular lenght, 0.71oz per x 4)
    OR
    1.12 -- Vargo outdoor 6.5in shepherd titanium 0.28oz per x 4

    TOTALS
    11.22 -- total with ground hog stakes
    9.50 -- total with titanium stake (less holding power than ground hog)

    (b) 8x8 Tarp (no doors)

    Oz -- Item
    4.50 -- 8x8 Tarp
    0.12 -- stuff stack
    0.88 -- spectra cord 1.5mm (0.88oz per 50 ft) x 1

    1.42 -- MSR ground hog stake (regular length, 0.71oz per x 2)
    OR
    0.56 -- Vargo outdoor 6.5in shepherd titanium 0.28oz per x 2

    TOTALS
    6.92 -- total with ground hog stakes
    6.06 -- total with titanium stake (less holding power than ground hog)

    Differences in weight

    11.22 - 6.92 = 4.3oz with ground hogs
    9.50 - 6.06 = 3.44oz with shepherd stakes

    The total weights donít include supplemental items such as cord tying gadgets (e.g., Dutch tarp flyz, knotbones). Nevertheless, I may have missed an item or two that could add to differences in weights.

    Looks like going with an 8x8 tarp will save about 3.44 to 4.3oz over a tarp with doors.

  2. #22
    Senior Member catalyst's Avatar
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    Maybe go out and buy a cheap poly 8x8 tarp and see how you like the coverage before spending the money. That way you find out before hand whether or not you want to tweak the dimensions.
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

  3. #23
    Senior Member jnelson871's Avatar
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    Wow thanks for the summary. It seems like I bounce back and fouth every hour. For 3 oz might fall for the doored tarp. Like the oily idea to test. As soon as I read it I smacked myself for not thinking of it. Will have to fond an 8x8 blue to test.

    Would a weather shield protect my UQ enough in rain and fog if I did not go with doors? I'm on the coast so see lots of fog.
    Ground=Cold+Hard+Wet

    Solution!!!! Sleep in a TREE

  4. #24
    Senior Member rip waverly's Avatar
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    i like this thread.
    if i could afford it, i'd have one of everything.

    for 3 oz., i think one would most benefit from the cuben with doors.
    its probably possible to save that weight elsewhere, as now you need not
    worry so much about weathershields for quilts, rainskirts for makeshift doors,
    dutch clips for hammock suspension, etc.
    "Jeff-Becking"

    DOWNTOWN BROWN!!!!

  5. #25
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nels5711 View Post
    Wow thanks for the summary. It seems like I bounce back and fouth every hour. For 3 oz might fall for the doored tarp. Like the oily idea to test. As soon as I read it I smacked myself for not thinking of it. Will have to fond an 8x8 blue to test.

    Would a weather shield protect my UQ enough in rain and fog if I did not go with doors? I'm on the coast so see lots of fog.
    An HH Explorer with Super Shelter and stock diamond tarp has proven to be about the most weather resistant system I use, even more so or at least equal to systems with much larger tarps. So, I would say that a weather shield would add major protection, if it is not a condensation prone system.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  6. #26
    Senior Member jnelson871's Avatar
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    I.was looking at the jacks r better poncho conversion, and can then lose my rain jacket and have a multi use item. Smea tells,me that it is breathable so condensation issues
    Last edited by jnelson871; 02-16-2012 at 15:42.
    Ground=Cold+Hard+Wet

    Solution!!!! Sleep in a TREE

  7. #27
    Senior Member jnelson871's Avatar
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    HG 4 season tarp Q'S

    So I did the weight and found that even with extra stakes I end up ahead by 2 oz with the 4 season cuben from HG as long as I do not need a weather shield.

    If using this tarp can I get away with no weather shield for my down quilt even in fog? If not then I end up ahead with the 8x8 tarp.

    Also, anyone pitch one of the 4 season HG's in porch mode or does the cat cut prevent this?
    Ground=Cold+Hard+Wet

    Solution!!!! Sleep in a TREE

  8. #28
    Senior Member catalyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnelson871 View Post
    So I did the weight and found that even with extra stakes I end up ahead by 2 oz with the 4 season cuben from HG as long as I do not need a weather shield.

    If using this tarp can I get away with no weather shield for my down quilt even in fog? If not then I end up ahead with the 8x8 tarp.

    Also, anyone pitch one of the 4 season HG's in porch mode or does the cat cut prevent this?
    I do, although I got mine without cat cuts. This would give you a little more coverage for very minimal weight gain. I haven't had a problem getting the tarp tight without the cat cuts. I can't comment on the fog question. Don't get much of that here.
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

  9. #29
    Member
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    While I don't hike coastal I have been in northeastern fog/rain with a zpacks hammock tarp (with no doors) and my uquilt stayed dry. For three season camping I don't think doors are really needed. At the verge of that fourth season you can supplement with a hammock-sock (breathable 1.1 ripstop) in colder weather.

    EDIT: Should probably add "why" I don't think doors are needed.... The zpacks tarp has a 11ft ridgeline and is 8.5ft wide which equates to quite a luxurious amount of coverage for a very low weight(5ounces without lines). You also only need four stakes. You can probably get away with the diamond tarp you mentioned originally in most circumstances but for SUL and even UL I feel like the doors are fairly superfluous for 3 season.
    Last edited by jay_nj; 02-19-2012 at 20:45.

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