Knots versus gadgets??

**Muskrat** · 03-19-2012, 20:08

I have just read the thread where they are discussing the usage of the Timber Hitch and the Sheet Bend and I stirred up an old question that has been stuck inside my head for a while now...

Without causing grief to our fine cottage guys and gals, I'm just curious how much weight could be saved (primarily for the gram weenies...) if a person managed to use proper knots for their hammock suspension, tarp tieouts, etc. I only use knots on my tarp ridgeline (a slippery tautline) and use a frictional wrap as Brandon (Warbonnet Guy) demonstrates in his video for my tarp guylines. There's not a knot (

) that I use that causes me any grief even in frigid, windy, snowy conditions. I understand alot has to do with the line that you are using, whether or not it can hold a knot. Maybe in these situations, gadgets are warranted... but I don't use a line that can't hold a knot.

Don't get me wrong, I own a few (ok, several) of the coolness gadgets myself. However, I am starting to think I am having a thing for shiny objects when I know for fact that my knot tying skills are more than adequate. Just curious to other opinions...

**The RidgeRunner** · 03-19-2012, 20:28

I have a couple shiny toys on my setup, the only advantage is speed IMO.

If i am worried about wind or weather, the shiny things go away and the old reliable knots come out.

**MAD777** · 03-19-2012, 20:36

Good question!
The gadgets offer convenience, especially at the end of a long day of hiking, when your brain just wants to get into the hammock. Thanks to Dutch, these shiny things don't add much weight. It's hard to remember what those climbing carabiners weighed!

However, like GPS vs map & compass, one needs to know their knots in case one of their trinkets falls to the leaf covered ground on an Autumn day. Uh-hum, not that that happened to me!

**Theo** · 03-19-2012, 21:01

I still like to mess with knots but the more the arthritis in my hands bother me, the more I rely on gadgets. The other day I was trying to make a fire with a friction bow just for giggles. Between the bad knees and arthritic hands let's just say I think those days are over.

**SilvrSurfr** · 03-19-2012, 21:03

Originally Posted by MAD777

Good question!
The gadgets offer convenience, especially at the end of a long day of hiking, when your brain just wants to get into the hammock. Thanks to Dutch, these shiny things don't add much weight. It's hard to remember what those climbing carabiners weighed!

However, like GPS vs map & compass, one needs to know their knots in case one of their trinkets falls to the leaf covered ground on an Autumn day. Uh-hum, not that that happened to me!

Gadgets are great for winter camping as well, when the brain wants to get in the hammock and the hands go numb while trying to tie something as simple as a marlin spike hitch in 20-degree weather with 20 mph winds.

That's also why I like rope splicing - whoopies, fixed loops, soft shackles, and such. And knots can derate the rope by as much as 50%, not to mention the wear and tear a knot causes on your rope.

Because I don't practice knots as much as I should, I always carry a laminated card to remind me of how to do the most common knots - just in case one of my doohickies falls in the leaves or a splice fails.

**SilvrSurfr** · 03-19-2012, 21:05

Originally Posted by Theo

I still like to mess with knots but the more the arthritis in my hands bother me, the more I rely on gadgets. The other day I was trying to make a fire with a friction bow just for giggles. Between the bad knees and arthritic hands let's just say I think those days are over.

I watched a couple of "elderly" friends trying to make fire with a friction bow
this weekend. Based on their complaining about aching body parts, I think those days are over for me too!

**Bubba** · 03-19-2012, 21:56

Knowledge doesn't weigh anything.

I love knots and knowing a handful of them is incredibly useful especially if hardware breaks or gets lost. I have been going back to knots recently just because I like tying them. I find it satisfying in a way.

**OutandBack** · 03-19-2012, 22:33

Originally Posted by Muskrat

I have just read the thread where they are discussing the usage of the Timber Hitch and the Sheet Bend and I stirred up an old question that has been stuck inside my head for a while now...

Without causing grief to our fine cottage guys and gals, I'm just curious how much weight could be saved (primarily for the gram weenies...) if a person managed to use proper knots for their hammock suspension, tarp tieouts, etc. I only use knots on my tarp ridgeline (a slippery tautline) and use a frictional wrap as Brandon (Warbonnet Guy) demonstrates in his video for my tarp guylines. There's not a knot (

) that I use that causes me any grief even in frigid, windy, snowy conditions. I understand alot has to do with the line that you are using, whether or not it can hold a knot. Maybe in these situations, gadgets are warranted... but I don't use a line that can't hold a knot.

Don't get me wrong, I own a few (ok, several) of the coolness gadgets myself. However, I am starting to think I am having a thing for shiny objects when I know for fact that my knot tying skills are more than adequate. Just curious to other opinions...

I have no idea how much weight could be saved. I guess it would depend on how many tools you were using.
That said, you would only need half the length of a whoopies since no loop would be required.
No toggle would be needed for a marlin spike hitch.
I still think 6' of 1" poly webbing would be required to cover most tree diameters.
The pine trees grow pretty fat out here and their not always the perfect 15' apart.
If you knew your area you might be able to get by with a 4' tree strap.
YMMV

**rip waverly** · 03-19-2012, 22:53

i'm back into the line and strap setup, a la brandons wbbb video - using
a slippery buntline hitch.

i used to obsess over adjusting the hammock to the perfect angles etc.
but have come love the knot for its utilitarian simplicity.

'hardware free' in 2012

my tarp is another story, though
(cue the dutchmeister)

**OutandBack** · 03-19-2012, 23:15

Originally Posted by rip waverly

i'm back into the line and strap setup, a la brandons wbbb video - using
a slippery buntline hitch.

i used to obsess over adjusting the hammock to the perfect angles etc.
but have come love the knot for its utilitarian simplicity.

'hardware free' in 2012

my tarp is another story, though
(cue the dutchmeister)

The Sheet Bend should give you as much adjustability as buckles and to hold a little tension on the knot the quilts could be stowed in the hammock until deployed.

I still use two pieces of hardware on my tarp. I need the leverage for a tight RL.

My tarp corner tie out are just 4' lengths of lash-it with simple loops at the end for porch mode and another loop 12" from the corner or the tarp for bad weather mode.