first hammock camping experience

**goldbond** · 07-16-2008, 07:52

Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

Dragon Fly- It's mothers like you that propel the scouting program. You show others that you dont have to be an outdoor junkie in order to take a kid camping. We have a few Moms that attend all our camping events and like you they never camped before scouting. Actually we started with one mom, who in turn convinced a few other moms to attend since the Dads were unable to attend. These mom's decided it was more important for thier sons to experience camping instead of not having thier children attend due to them not being "campers".

They now look forward to coming and now and participate in our skills courses with the scout.

Funny story....the name of the scoutmasters patrol is th"old Goats". We have a patch that was designed and made by one of the moms that is halarious! We have several "moms" that love to camp and pretty much go with us all the time. The thought that they needed a patrol name and patch as well. They now call thier selves the "Nanny Goats" They took our patch and took the horns and beard of and added some pink and well....they are now a very important part of our troop. The boys know that when they need help planning a court of honor or something to that effect.....you call on the Nanny Goats! When we do our annual BBQ Chicken fund raiser the Nanny Goats do a dessert bake sale to go along with it....they raised $400.00 ddollars just by their selves this past time! So yes moms are very important to a troop whether they camp or not!

**Peter_pan** · 07-16-2008, 12:17

Originally Posted by neo

order of the arrow,in the troop i was in you had to be in the click to get in

neo

NEO,

Unless you were in an "outlaw troop", not following BSA and OA guidance, your statement could not be farther from the truth....

OA ( BSA honor camping society and most productive source of camp volenteer labor/asistance) candidates are elected to eligibility/candatacy (sp?)by the non members... This requirement guarentees it is not a clique.

YMMV in TN....

Pan

**Ramblinrev** · 07-16-2008, 13:20

Originally Posted by Peter_pan

NEO,

Unless you were in an "outlaw troop", not following BSA and OA guidance, your statement could not be farther from the truth....

OA ( BSA honor camping society and most productive source of camp volenteer labor/asistance) candidates are elected to eligibility/candatacy (sp?)by the non members... This requirement guarentees it is not a clique.

YMMV in TN....

Pan

ummm.... there is guidance from above in name and in spirit. The two can be vastly different. I personally was subject or witness to physical and sexual humiliation and abuse as well as discriminatory practices of many sorts. None of which were condoned or approved by the National. But the practices were so wide spread and received such tacit approval of being "traditional" that there was no where to go and no one to go to. When my boys were in scouts many of the same practices existed, again by "tradition" and were supported by the leaders as being "good fun."

I was charged $20 a piece for myself and my son for three meals at an overnight weekend. There was more food left over than was eaten. Guess who set up the charges... you got it... the person who bought their groceries on troop money. But is was "Traditional." In another troop the leadership violated confidentiality regulations by accessing documents they had no business accessing and dispersing information in illegal ways. All these troops avowed the guidance of national and international rules and regulations including the various trainings.

I'm sorry Pan. I did not want to get into the dirty crap. But the comment about guidance from above just got up my nose. I know folks will say "Those are the exceptions" but to be honest, in _my_ experience there is a 100% correlation between the abuses and the troops.

Please hear me carefully. I am not chastising any of you individually or even as a organization. We _do_ tend to see things through the experience we have had. Please continue to do the good stuff so that at least some kids can be blessed by your presence. By the same token do not dismiss what others have to say. It can be an awakening experience.

**goldbond** · 07-16-2008, 13:32

Originally Posted by Peter_pan

NEO,

Unless you were in an "outlaw troop", not following BSA and OA guidance, your statement could not be farther from the truth....

OA ( BSA honor camping society and most productive source of camp volenteer labor/asistance) candidates are elected to eligibility/candatacy (sp?)by the non members... This requirement guarentees it is not a clique.

YMMV in TN....

Pan

CORRECT!!! The boys of the troop do the voting and count the votes and turn in the nominatios. No adults and I mean leaders or otherwise have anything to do with the voting.I do not know of any one "click" that can alter the outcome of a vote.I guess if you have a small troop and the majority of the boys chose not to vote for any one individual it could happen.

**Ramblinrev** · 07-16-2008, 13:37

No adults and I mean leaders or otherwise have anything to do with the voting.

I'm sorry... I have seen too much pressure coming from adults in a variety of venues to accept this statement at face value. That may be the way it is _supposed_ to work, but adults have a huge amount of influence even in a large community or group.

**Lone Wolf** · 07-16-2008, 13:58

Dang Rev, you must have been in a really messed up Troop. I amazed that other parents did not report some of the serious charges you mention (physical & sexual abuse).

As far as the weekend trip goes. Thats a toughie. Any excess funds from events like you mentioned goes in the troop fund for future activities. I know when we started doing events we were not sure what to charge for food. We eventually honed the skill of quantity and costs, but there were always other charges like the camp site, etc.

I believe your situation is unique based on the hugely negative things that happened in your troop. I cant imagine what it must have been like to be a part of that troop.

I wish you would have been in our troop. You would be a promoter of scouting and not a detractor.

Keep in mind, the volunteer can make or break a troop. Our pack went through a struggle on leadership when I started. I remember in the beginning thinking about quitting because a few leaders didnt want to camp and do arts and crafts. Two them were always at each others throat and things were being done per BSA protocol.

I choose to fight those pricks because if I quit then it would just continue. I'm a fiery redhead irish boy who will speak his piece. After time they left and the pack flourished.

I make this point to thoses parents who are considering scouting for thier son, but may never commit for fear of the bad experiences they hear or read about. Typically it is a few bad apples, but thier are normally more honest caring parents who are fearful to speak up to the "bullies".

I say to perspective parents - get involved in the troop and make a difference.
That being said, I am no way talking to you like you should have jumped in and fixed that mess.

**Lone Wolf** · 07-16-2008, 14:04

Our OA is handled by the boys voting. I havent seen any parent try to negatively influence those decision in our group. I'm fortunate since we have a really good group of parents.

Rev- What troop were you in and are they still in existance.

**Ramblinrev** · 07-16-2008, 14:10

Lone wolf... this is actually about 4-5 different troops in as many different states. I've heard the "get involved and change things" but that is extremely difficult to do in an entrenched system. All it takes is "those in charge" to say... "You know.. this person would really make a great addition to this or that group" and the majority of kids will hear that abide by it. Furthermore there are ways in which the "outlaw" can exert tremendous pressure upon those around him/her. All it takes is a subtle threat of a miserable life, particular on the part of a treasurer or someone else in authority and you would be amazed what get approved. I'm no stranger to event planning having done more than my share of church/youth group outings and conferences. I know the other charges involved in this case and this was for food, period.

I do not want to be seen as a "detractor" of scouting. That is not my intent. If it was I would not be writing the way I am writing. The system is/has been broken. I would really like to see it reverse that trend. I really have a lot of respect for your dedication to the groups. Hopefully things can improve.

**Ramblinrev** · 07-16-2008, 14:15

Lone Wolf... I don't know if they are still in existence and I don't know what the troop numbers have been. I _do_ know there has been a lot of cleaning up in scouts over the sexual hazing and such. For me.. it was too little, too late. But some of the other hazing activities still exist. Or did several years ago. My kids all hated scouting. We tried it. Over and over again. We just never seemed to connect with a group that was worth a tinkers ****.

**angrysparrow** · 07-16-2008, 14:16

Hey guys, this discussion has grown far beyond the bounds of it's 'first hammock camping experience' topic. Maybe we should either let the discussion stand as is, or take further comments to the 'members off-topic' section. Thanks.