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  1. #11
    Senior Member TDunc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post

    ...The alternative would be using a continuous filmanet synth insulation and quilting it directly to the double layer fabric. once again, no seams into the body. Once again getting the sizes right so as to not compress would be a tricky part, at least for me.
    This is what I have been playing with. I am still not sold on it though because when I pin it up leaving enough for the loft and with weight in the hammock, it looks good to begin with. Then I shift the weight simulating me moving to the diag., then it seems to compress the fill a little too much. It probably is just me but that is what keeps the "bee in my bonnet".

    I have thought about just leaving a bigger air gap in above the insulation layer and seeing what it does. BUT the temp is 75 outside at 6:00am so I will have to keep this project on hold until cooler weather to check it out. UNLESS someone wants to donate a ticket to Seattle. Temp at Paradise at Mt. Ranier is 39 right now.
    ------- AKA "4D's" ----------------
    "Oh yeah, to keep it on topic. I sewed on my hammock today"

    "A night above ground makes the next days ride even more enjoyable"

    "As for his secret to staying married: "My wife tells me that if I ever decide to leave, she is coming with me." -- Jon BonJovi

    Happy Wife = Happy Life" -- author unknown

  2. #12
    Senior Member Graybeard's Avatar
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    It sounds to me like there's more thought on the subject than just the threads that have been posted and I missed. So.....if the biggest problem is ensuring that weight in the hammock doesn't compress the insulation when in use, what do you all think of the idea of hanging the hammock indoors in a convenient location, loading it with bags of sand equal to my weight and distributed similarly, letting it stretch and adjust for a couple of days, and then "building to fit" so to speak?

    (Will be gone for several days so don't be offended if I fail to respond promptly to your generously offered sugar-coated drops of wisdom.)
    bob

  3. #13
    Senior Member TDunc's Avatar
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    That is what I have done. I move the weight around and still have some compression that I dont like.. probably just me.
    ------- AKA "4D's" ----------------
    "Oh yeah, to keep it on topic. I sewed on my hammock today"

    "A night above ground makes the next days ride even more enjoyable"

    "As for his secret to staying married: "My wife tells me that if I ever decide to leave, she is coming with me." -- Jon BonJovi

    Happy Wife = Happy Life" -- author unknown

  4. #14
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    I guess I fail to see the attraction or advantage. In terms of of an engineering exercise I can see how people like Griz and others would be excited about it. But it seems to me there is little to be gained and significant loss incurred by such a model. In terms of size/weight/bulk I see no particular gain. The loft of the insulation is still going to be whatever the loft would be for an underquilt. The weight would be virtually identical, excepting of course the importance for gram weenies who calculate the total weight of each component. You save the weight of no-see-um as compared to ripstop. IMO that's a wash. So you save a total of maybe 4 grams. biggus whoopus.

    You lose the ability to tailor your insulation and airflow. One of the advantages to a separate quilt is you can lower one end or the whole thing if it is warmer than you thought it would be. You can swap out one quilt for another if you are so inclined. Im terms of versatility, I don't see the advantage.

    So enlighten me. As I said as a project I understand the appeal. But I wonder if the practicalities of it outweigh the theoretical rush.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Preacha Man's Avatar
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    Rev,

    That is why I have yet to make one, it just seems over the top, and limits your adjustablility.

    Dwight
    Psalm 19:1-3 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard."

  6. #16
    Senior Member TDunc's Avatar
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    When it is cold and I need to take one with an underquilt, I have found that most of my adjusting has been with my top not the bottom. Again, probably just my wierd way of handling the situation.
    So, with that said, I dont want to have to carry (and adjust, and adjust and adjust) an underquilt as a seperate piece. Having a one piece unit for the hammock under these circumstances is what I am looking for. Just a way to make it easier for me. (ie one piece unit - Clark)

    That is what makes this place and the information so unique. We all hang a little different. Some like camo, some like green, some like brown. Some like bottom entry, some like top, some like rope some like strap.

    I am always open minded and willing to learn a new way. Heck, it just might turn into something.
    ------- AKA "4D's" ----------------
    "Oh yeah, to keep it on topic. I sewed on my hammock today"

    "A night above ground makes the next days ride even more enjoyable"

    "As for his secret to staying married: "My wife tells me that if I ever decide to leave, she is coming with me." -- Jon BonJovi

    Happy Wife = Happy Life" -- author unknown

  7. #17
    slowhike's Avatar
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    Here's another drawing that I added after the first down insulated failed because of the stitching in the body...


    I never did get around to making this second version, but I may yet.
    The changes in the baffles in this drawing should keep the down in place better, reducing "thin spots".

    Grizz is right obviously, that the way he added the seams to the hammock body proved to be a much better way to sew to the hammock body with out the same concern about it ripping under pressure.
    But I'm almost convinced that sewing what is seen in the drawing, then sewing it to the hammock body at the side seams would be a safer way to go (in my thoughts).
    Yeah, I know it's basically making an underquilt & sewing it to the hammock, adding one extra layer & no adjustability, but like was said at the beginning of this thread, some trips you just know that the under insulation is just going to stay in place anyway.
    And by shaping it to the "loaded hammock" as was mentioned, and sewing it to the hammock there are no seams that could open with movement & loose heat.

    I described last year when I was making mine, how I loaded the hammock to simulate it being occupied.
    First I would line the bottom of the hammock w/ ccf pads, then add pillows to further spread it, the a big foot stool to add more weight.
    It still wasn't as much weight as me being in it, but it gave it the basic shape.

    Before trying the down versions, I made two synthetic insulated hammocks that worked great.
    They were just way to bulky... but of course I made the mistake of insulating them from end to end.
    I may do another one w/ synthetic insulation that goes from side to side, but only from head to just below the butt area.
    That would only require two layers of fabric... one 1.9 for the body & one slightly wider & longer 1.1 for the bottom shell.
    It would be longer & wider to reduce compression of the insulation.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Graybeard's Avatar
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    Lots of good thoughts posted while I was gone!! Thanks!!

    A couple of the posts asked what advantages there were to integrated insulation as opposed to the more common and more versatile underquilt. Being new to hammocking, I can't answer with authority but I can explain what I anticipate:
    * For me, tripping only in the NorthEast, and carrying absolutely no body fat insulation, the option of leaving underneath insulation at home would be folly, an invitation to disaster.
    * Sewing the undercover to the hammock body will be the simplest, most effective, and secure way to prevent heat-robbing drafts between the insulation and the hammock body.
    * If I did want to go into areas where I didn't want the underneath insulation, swapping out the insulated hammock body for an uninsulated one, while keeping the same suspension, bugnet, etc. would be at least as easy as removing a well-fitted underquilt. Given my method of attaching the hammock, I can't imagine that the swap would take more than thirty seconds.
    * My #1 rule for all tripping equipment is "Keep it simple and reliable."

    Here and elsewhere, experienced hammockers have cautioned against weakening the hammock body by sewing into it. Taking that advice to heart, I anticipate:
    * Sewing the edges of the undercover to the hammock body only at the top edges of the hammock body, or at least well above the stressed portion of the hammock body.
    * Not sewing any baffles to the hammock body.
    * Attaching the ends of the undercover to the hammock body by extending the undercover into the gathered and whipped ends, not sewing at all.

    The choice between down and synthetic insulation, for me, is governed by safety. I travel by canoe. Accidents happen, and when they do things often get wet despite extensive precautions. Wet down is useless and takes forever to dry out while wet synthetic insulation retains some insulating value and dries comparatively quickly. Down compresses much better than synthetic, which is a big advantage for the backpacker but no advantage to me at all. I stuff light bulky items into oversized waterproof dry-sacks with watertight Hypalon closures and tie them into the canoe to provide flotation in the event of a capsize. They stay tied into the canoe on the portages. (The "bulk" issue is addressed by choosing a 12-foot canoe rather than a 14-footer)

    Sooooo.......I'm now leaning toward a permanently sewn-in underquilt, a.k.a. insulated hammock, extending from end to end and side to side, with synthetic insulation varying in thickness from zero below the ankles and above the neck to two or three inches under the torso, loosely quilted to the undercover, and shaped with darts in the undercover to conform loosely to the hammock body and occupant.

    What am I overlooking???

    b
    bob

  9. #19
    Senior Member fin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    * If I did want to go into areas where I didn't want the underneath insulation, swapping out the insulated hammock body for an uninsulated one, while keeping the same suspension, bugnet, etc. would be at least as easy as removing a well-fitted underquilt. Given my method of attaching the hammock, I can't imagine that the swap would take more than thirty seconds.b
    So, you're going to carry an extra Hammock if there is the possibility of not needing the insulation? Why not just leave the UQ attached to the hammock when you pack up, and remove it when you don't need it? You can make the attachment to the hammock sides with zippers or something like velcro or even threaded loops, make it semi-permanent but not permanent. Of course, if you carry the extra hammock, you can always use it for gear storage or an extra seat around camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    I stuff light bulky items into oversized waterproof dry-sacks with watertight Hypalon closures and tie them into the canoe to provide flotation in the event of a capsize. They stay tied into the canoe on the portages. (The "bulk" issue is addressed by choosing a 12-foot canoe rather than a 14-footer
    LOL, us Canoe people have a different idea of UltraLight, don't we? You have obviously spilled b4 - only people who have spilled or seen others spill tie their bags to the canoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    What am I overlooking???
    b
    Not much. I don't know why it wouldn't work. I like the idea of whipping the ends of the UQ into the hammock rather than sewing. I would create a waterproof version of the Bishop Bag for added piece of mind when traveling on the water, large enough to hold your insulated hammock inside your waterproof dry-sack. If you have to have a stuff sack for your hammock, might as well make it waterproof and double your chances of keeping it dry. It's not going to dry out much while it's in the sack anyway.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Graybeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishinFinn View Post
    So, you're going to carry an extra Hammock if there is the possibility of not needing the insulation?
    Ummmmmm.............yeah, all the way to the closet where I keep my other camping and canoeing gear. But now that you bring up the notion of carrying two hammocks on a trip, I can see the potential. Have you seen the video of the bear that climbed into a hammock? Maybe if I hung the spare and Mr. Bear came around, he might climb in and fall asleep. Then I could pack up and find a different site.

    You have obviously spilled b4 - only people who have spilled or seen others spill tie their bags to the canoe.
    Actually, I haven't taken a dunk while on a trip. But my homebuilt pack canoe achieves it's 16-lb 8-oz weight in part by avoiding duplication. So I eliminated the added weight of flotation chambers by planning to achieve the same or greater flotation with lightly stuffed dry bags, which don't work very well if floating 20 yards away from the swamped canoe. At my age, body build, and preferred canoeing locations there are only two choices: count ounces or stay home and drink beer....and I'm not at all sure I'm making the right choice.
    bob

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