WBBB & large thin pad

[oldgringo]

The insulative value of the various RidgeRest pads depends, in part, on trapping air in the voids formed between your body, the pad, and the ground. Obviously, in a hammock, nothing gets trapped on the bottom, and there is a corresponding degradation in R value. Really comfy, but not terribly warm.

[rip waverly]

first night out in the hmmk- i used my orange Z-rest - got chilled at the 40* mark, but was able to get decent rest, i.e. was not fa'fa'freeeeezing

please note--this was my 1ST NIGHT -- YMMV


i've seen a buddy use the wide sized neo air between the layers, and it looked very comfy!

i've also had luck with the stuff wbguy recommends,,, landau foam.
wide pieces, various thickness, easy to customize to your needs.

[dakotaross]

Yeah, I have the Zlite, too, the actual thickness of the ccell is very thin. So, like oldgringo said, its not ideal unless its summer - both due to R-factor and the fact its 20"wide. The multimat weighs about the same, is twice as wide, same length, and thicker foam(not by much) - although it doesn't have near the comfort on the ground as the zlite. Should work great as a summer, coming out of and going into 3-season, hammock pad if I can get it to stay put.

[Tendertoe]

Hand stitching some small pieces of velcro or omnitape to the insides of each layer would close things up nicely - preventing the pad from working its way out. Minimal weight addition as well for one or two quarter-sized pieces of velcro.

[kwpapke]

I did two BGT reports that might be helpful. The first is my writeup of the Multimat itself:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/revi...0Kurt%20Papke/

The second is my WBBB 1.7 dbl report that has fairly extensive info on use of the multimat with a WBBB including weather conditions:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/revi...0Kurt%20Papke/

Hope this is of some use!

--Kurt

[EricFromPortland]

Wow, such great information on pad temps. Thanks.
Oh, and kwpapke, great BGT report.

[oldsoldier]

Cold is relative too-take that into consideration. The Gossamer Gear hammock pad I have took me into the low 40's (some say it got into the high 30s, but I was sleeping ), with no issues at all. BUT, again, this pad is WIDE-so, it wrapped around my body. And, I was inside a sleeping bag. Pad dynamics change when they arent on the ground-first, the heat transfer is different. Second, larger CCF pads are more for comfort from the ground-not so much insulation. You will feel roots, rocks, etc, much more easily through a 1/8" pad than you would a 3/4" one. Heat transfer MAY be negligible though (I dont know, and never even looked into it, but it would make sense, as CCF will crush to a certain point under weight). I would think that heat transfer in a hammock may be different-you MAY be able to get a higher temp rating with a thinner pad. The compression would be slightly less (ground is hard, hammock bottom more forgiving), and it would come down to simply something like you move off the pad at night, and encounter a cold spot. Other than that, I think that a pad of adequate width would work just fine during 3 out of 4 seasons. This is based on MY experience though. I have slept in sub zero weather, on the ground, with only a CCF pad under me, and I was fine-that experience alone tells me that the pads insulative properties worked fine, even when crushed under me. The pad was a standard military issue one-maybe 1/4" or so. So long as I stay ON the pad, I am fine. Come off the pad, I got cold, fast. I would assume the same thing in the hammock.

[voivalin]

Cold is relative too-take that into consideration. The Gossamer Gear hammock pad I have took me into the low 40's (some say it got into the high 30s, but I was sleeping ), with no issues at all. BUT, again, this pad is WIDE-so, it wrapped around my body. And, I was inside a sleeping bag.

Pad dynamics change when they arent on the ground-first, the heat transfer is different. Second, larger CCF pads are more for comfort from the ground-not so much insulation. You will feel roots, rocks, etc, much more easily through a 1/8" pad than you would a 3/4" one.

Heat transfer MAY be negligible though (I dont know, and never even looked into it, but it would make sense, as CCF will crush to a certain point under weight). I would think that heat transfer in a hammock may be different-you MAY be able to get a higher temp rating with a thinner pad. The compression would be slightly less (ground is hard, hammock bottom more forgiving), and it would come down to simply something like you move off the pad at night, and encounter a cold spot. Other than that, I think that a pad of adequate width would work just fine during 3 out of 4 seasons. This is based on MY experience though. I have slept in sub zero weather, on the ground, with only a CCF pad under me, and I was fine-that experience alone tells me that the pads insulative properties worked fine, even when crushed under me. The pad was a standard military issue one-maybe 1/4" or so. So long as I stay ON the pad, I am fine. Come off the pad, I got cold, fast. I would assume the same thing in the hammock.

If I understood this wrongly, sorry! But what I understood is wrong.

The problem with CCF pad in hammock in cold weather is moving cold air. It moves the heat away and then comes more cold air. When CCF is used in ground there is no moving cold matter that takes the heat away only - slow conduction and radiation. And usually ground has some insulation properties, only snow and ice are problems then there will be very energy consummating change from solid to liquid.

So, one needs thicker CCF pad not thinner in hammock than in ground for insulation and thicker CCF pad on ground than in hammock for comfort.

[dakotaross]

...Pad dynamics change when they arent on the ground-first, the heat transfer is different...

The problem with CCF pad in hammock in cold weather is moving cold air. It moves the heat away and then comes more cold air. When CCF is used in ground there is no moving cold matter that takes the heat away only - slow conduction and radiation. And usually ground has some insulation properties...

I'm going to disagree and agree with both of you...

CCF pad dynamics don't change much at all regardless if on ground or in the hammock. Most CCF pads used on the ground are going to be thick enough to block any heat transfer. Anything thinner and there may be some heat loss wither to the ground or to the air. In the case of CCF, I don't think moving air makes much of a difference, but air temperature can be colder than the ground temp (and vice versa). The moving air issue is of much more concern with no insulation - somewhat less so with underquilts since the moving air does assist in pulling body heat through the exterior of the quilt, and of course wind can help to create gaps between you and the UQ.

I agree that there is no way that you get a higher "temp rating" with a thinner pad. However, I think what the first guy was getting at is that in a hammock, a thinner CCF pad can provide more overall insulation as it conforms to the wrapping of the hammock around you as opposed to a thicker, stiffer CCF pad. This is not so much true in terms of CBS, but rather in terms of overall warmth. It also doesn't apply as much if the sides of the hammock are staked out ala HH or BB.

Agreed that staying on the pad is really the key issue in a hammock, and that's really my main concern with the thinner pad in the BB double. While its plenty wide, I don't want it working its way out during the night and thereby getting cold. Having used a thicker pad before, it seems like this is less of an issue with the more rigid, thicker CCF pad.

[oldsoldier]

The gossamer gear one I have made specifically for hammocks you will not roll off of. It is wide enough that it curves around you when in the hammock.