Flaw in my TQ Logic?

[traveler23b]

Looking for some opinions in my TQ logic ... my wife is a fair weather hanger while i like braving all sorts of climates. So here is my top quilt logic, i picked up 2 summer (1+) TQ. One AHE Owyhee and one Golite 1+ quilt so in mild weather (upstate NY) we can both have a TQ to hang with. Then instead of buying a third 3 season TQ, i plan a combined use the Golite 1+ and the Owyhee into a 3 season warmth combination. I know carrying 2 quilts will be a bit heavier but it will save a few hundred in cost. Is anyone doing this or has anyone tried this? What temp rating would you think this solution would be good until? Am i missing something or will this solution work OK?

The floor is now open for laughter and cheap shots ...

[alrany187]

Looking for some opinions in my TQ logic ... my wife is a fair weather hanger while i like braving all sorts of climates. So here is my top quilt logic, i picked up 2 summer (1+) TQ. One AHE Owyhee and one Golite 1+ quilt so in mild weather (upstate NY) we can both have a TQ to hang with. Then instead of buying a third 3 season TQ, i plan a combined use the Golite 1+ and the Owyhee into a 3 season warmth combination. I know carrying 2 quilts will be a bit heavier but it will save a few hundred in cost. Is anyone doing this or has anyone tried this? What temp rating would you think this solution would be good until? Am i missing something or will this solution work OK?

The floor is now open for laughter and cheap shots ...

Traveler,

Don't know where upstate you are, but I have used the quilt liner from Jack's R Better to good results down to mid 30* temps. I would suggest getting one of these and lighten the bulk/weight while maintaining warmth. It's also nice in the warm months all by itself.

Regards,

Ellis

[gunner76]

The floor is now open for laughter and cheap shots ...

Nothing wrong with your questions or logic. Only problem I see is if you are backpacking, the extra weight could be an issue but if you are car camping (the only way I can get my wife to go with me) then its not a problem. When I car camp I take everything, when I am backing I carry the minimum gear I can get away with and still be comfortable (..stay warm in the hammock)

When you get some extra $$$ down the road you can get another TQ.

I started with a $12 wallyworld foam pad and my old down sleeping bag as a TQ and as I could afford it I would buy a new piece of gear. Lots of members sell almost brand new gear that they bought to test and or just found it did not work for them and or their style of hanging. Also our cottage industry members often have sales where you can get "factory" seconds ect. I have bought most of TQs'/UQ's when they were on sale.

[gargoyle]

Winter camping comes with its need for extra gear.
Your "stacking" quilt idea works fine. Winter means more everything, (hats, mittens, gloves, balaclava, jackets, long johns, socks, pants, food, quilts, big tarp, etc.) and if you have a pulk, the extra weight and bulk isnt really a issue. Most of the winter camping I've done is car camping or short hike. So if needed you can always take a quick 2nd trip out to the car for another load.

If your serious about long hikes in cold weather, you'll have to pack up and see how big your "cold gear" really is. Tweak it accordingly.

Do a search on "pulks" and there are some really great diy sled plans available.

[Bannerstone]

I've had success stacking a 40* and a 20* TQ. I did notice that the foot box had a bit less room but it wasn't a problem even sleeping in my down mocs.

Almost all of my gear was purchased 2nd hand here on the forum, I recommend it highly.

David

[Bitts]

Actually A dual bag/quilt system can be a great setup. Ideally the outer bag would be synthetic, with the inner one down. This moves the location of the dew point out away from the down allowing it to stay dry. Even drying it to some degree, when needed. Personally I would never go with a quilt opposed to a bag given the choice, but the system works with either.

Here's some more info on the concept.
http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/double_up

[Rolloff]

Thanks for posting that. I read a similar article in the past and couldn't re-find.

One of the often overlooked(ignored) advantages Syn holds over Down, is it's ability to wick away and dry wet, damp, clothes, and bodies, w/o compromising insulation capability.

While the use of a hammock sock may prevent down insulation from wind and weather, it will not dry you, your down, or clothes, with your own body heat.

You must really evaluate your needs and the extremes you are willing to take them into, to decide how to go. If looking for no more than a comfortable weekend trip or one of a few days, in fairly hospitable environs, I would want the lightest down insulation possible for the temps/conditions, encountered.

As I venture forth into longer trips, farther afield, encountering more varied terrains, weather conditions, where I have less control and/or knowledge of the above, I'm moving toward more of a combination of insulations, and better set up skills.

Long Tern Bug Out situations call for even more intense scrutiny of all the above concerns. IMO here Syn and Syn/Down layers becomes even more of a player, in these situations. Here you get no second chances, no chance to get it right the next time.

[hopsean]

Very interesting topic! Do you guys have experience with what level of syn outer layering is necessary to see the added benefit and drying properties for a down inner layer? Initially it seems to make since that say a 40-50* down TQ with say a something light like a poncho liner made into an good fitting outer shell wouldn't be enough to see a marked benefit or temp differential to wick the moisture from the down TQ. I may be wrong in that logic, anyone tried this with results? Also, say you add an inner syn layer like alrany187 mentioned above with a JRB liner... would it be better served on the outside of the layering sandwhich?

I'm very interested in determining a good layered type system that will allow the grab the layer combo you need for a particular outting approach, but I can also see the weight and compressibility of a combo can quickly become a deterant too. Rolloff, I would love to hear what seems to be some in practice learning you have aquired on this subject!

[hopsean]

Anyone using and happy with a dual layer, synthetic over down system they care to discuss?

[Rolloff]

It's not a lot of intentional product testing, more in field use and I wasn't really referring to a Syn/Down layering system as per say.

The Down Syn layering is interesting but difficult to achieve due to compression of any down inner layer. Problematic, but not an impossible.

I was more referring to the ability that good quality synthetics have of being able to dry out damp items of clothing, and themselves, while wearing or sleeping in them. You don't plan on sleeping in wet cloths, and you don't plan on getting your insulation damp or wet either, but it can happen. With down you are done.

That said, I'm not knocking down. Still the warmest, lightest, packable, by all means.

However, I'm staying with a Synthetic for an UQ as my goto for now, when I can afford another trip to AHE.

Presently, with a tarp with a 12' RL, I'm more wary of spray and splatter underneath, than anything coming down from above. I'm sure when finances allow, I'll get a good down UQ, for the fair weather weekenders and short week or less, hikes and it WILL probably get the most calls, due to the weight factor alone. Longer hikes, Thru or Section, if the weather is suspect at all, I'd want the Syn UQ again.

More importantly, I'll also stay Syn with my insulated jacket. Here is where layering, wicking and drying really come into play for me.

Worst case situation? You can wear them in the pouring rain, and you will be wet as a dog...but warm. Wear them long enough after the rain stops and whatever your wearing underneath will begin to dry pretty quickly.

Often I feel that when we get into the Down vs Synthetics discussions, it's always the weight vs warmth vs bulk vs cost equation. I'm just not yet convinced that formula considers all viable factors, or that the superior insulation qualities of down completely nix the warm when wet and drying abilities of high quality Syns.