Speer, Clark or something else?

[cavediver2]

I'd like to try a Clark hammock one day myself. One thing I do have a problem with is this statement on the Clark site "The insulating pocket system keeps you warmer in cold weather, removing the need for insulating pads."
That is a very misleading statement IMO causing many to buy one based on misinformation. Like Cavediver and others have said before, one typically needs a pad(s) or underquilt in cold weather in this hammock.

Yea I think your right to some degree I have never tried it but I would think that if you had enough clothing to put into those pockets you could probably make due all right but not in the colder weather I would hate to think that I had to rely on that to keep me warm. I would think that you could do temps in the 50-60's okay with clothing and the clothing on your body. But when backpacking who packs that much clothing maybe a jacket but if its real cold i would be wearing it to bed.

I have a parachute type hammock and I can tell my back gets cold on it with a tshirt and shorts on at 75 degress cause it just happened this morning but I can lay in my Clark and not feel it at all partly due to the material and second the pockets them selfs are thick material on top of the hammock body but where there are no pockets I still don't feel that cold like I do with the other hammock.

but that was a good point you brought out.

[Chris.Biomed]

Sometimes it is possible to overthink a problem. I'm not saying that you are doing that... but If you are going to make choices on price alone then stick to price alone and work out the kinks as you meet them. If you are going to make choices by flat lie... thaen stick to flat lie and work out the kinks as you meet them. Choose your priority because you won't find one system that does it all. I thought it was strange that companies would sell hammocks without tarps until I found out that people mix and match tarps, hammockes and everything else almost without limit. Choose a priority and let the rest of the quirks be "tinker" toys. JMO YMMV

Great stuff! Ok, let's see where I should start, as I own two hammocks I'll write the pros and cons of them both and maybe someone can give me a hint of what I'm actually looking for. *Note* I'm only thinking about the hammock, not the tarp.

HHULBA
+Light
+Stealthy color
+Bugnet
+Comfy
-Hammock is too wide, makes the pad slip away
-The inside height is too low
-The entry/exit mode
-Not being able to take the bug net off
-Can't have enough gear at hand, like to have access to it all all the time

DD Hammock
+Cocoon, like it tight
+Comfy
+double layer, nice as the pad stays put
+stealthy
+Can reach to anything outside the hammock
+nice as a chair to lounge in or to put my shoes on from etc
+follows the KISS rule
-No bug net
-weight is on the heavy side

As too insulation I am thinking of some sort of underquilt. Would prefer it over a pad. Yet for the time being I can wait with this option and just focus on getting the right hammock.

So what do you guys and girls think? Is there hope for me?

[fin]

on the equivalence of the Clark comparison : With all the Clark folks here who routinely report sleeping comfortably without additional insulation in temperature regions where the rest of us have to resort to pads or quilts, I came to realize that there must be something special in the stitching. The way I figure it, Clark---being the A #1 Made-In-America hammock brand that it is, must have a contract with the DoD to test special thread the military would like to use in the field to reduce the bulk of stuff that soldiers have to carry. The thread creates a special electromagnetic field that affects an occupant's brain waves and suppresses the interpretation of "cold" signals from the body. So a lightweight desert uniform would work just as well for winter climes.

Long term effects of this field on the brain haven't been studied formally yet, but look---all these people actually believe they're staying warm with only an empty "pocket" beneath them, even when not in the hammock. You can judge for yourself whether there has been long term damage...

(just having some fun with the Clark folks, some of whom are my friends...)

Grizz

I resemble that comment! You figured out the radioactive thread secret - very clever. Now Clark will have to send someone out to "correct" your memory.

[cavediver2]

chris your doing fine just keep putting it to paper and you will find what your looking for remember I said that everyone has there input. take notes and put them to paper as well. when all is said and done I hope you get what your looking for.

KISS is what I believe in and that is why I have two of those.

[Chris.Biomed]

*Note* I want something light and on the compact side as I plan to do a long hike next year, don't want to carry anything more than necessary.

[fin]

So I decided to try a DD Hammock to test a different stile, except for the weight (over 2 pounds) I really like the top-entry, and the ease of insulating it thanks to its double layer. Yet being a ultra light hiker that I am, the weight is a problem. So, I'm planning on getting another hammock (dear god, I've become a true HF member). And I was wondering if someone could give me some guidance? I'm looking for:

-Top-entry
-Low weight and bulk
-Good coverage and weather protection
-For 3 season use
-Preferably without the need for a pad

Chris, after re-reading your initial requirements, have you tried to lighten the load on the DD? If you replace the heavy yellow/green webbing with lightweight Amsteel, and mod the second layer on the DD (think cut off pad layer, replace with 1.1 ripstop), the weight might drop enough for you to just use your DD. You already said you like the hammock. That would be your simplest, cheapest option.

[Quoddy]

Although the comparison began involving the Speer, not much has been commented upon in that direction. I bought a Speer and have no plans to go to anything else. Combined with a Peapod, I'm set for some low temperatures without doing anything else. I've found it extremely simple to set up, bug proof in the summer with the netting on, and warm in the winter with the Peapod. I've always felt comfortable in it and expecially like to set it up during a lunch break on a hike. Takes me under 90 seconds to set up and I'm ready for a nap.

[Chris.Biomed]

Chris, after re-reading your initial requirements, have you tried to lighten the load on the DD? If you replace the heavy yellow/green webbing with lightweight Amsteel, and mod the second layer on the DD (think cut off pad layer, replace with 1.1 ripstop), the weight might drop enough for you to just use your DD. You already said you like the hammock. That would be your simplest, cheapest option.

Nicely put, I think that I simply need more experience before I decide on what I want.

Although the comparison began involving the Speer, not much has been commented upon in that direction. I bought a Speer and have no plans to go to anything else. Combined with a Peapod, I'm set for some low temperatures without doing anything else. I've found it extremely simple to set up, bug proof in the summer with the netting on, and warm in the winter with the Peapod. I've always felt comfortable in it and expecially like to set it up during a lunch break on a hike. Takes me under 90 seconds to set up and I'm ready for a nap.

Interesting! You have exactly the set up as I was planning on getting before I started this thread. Besides being great for winter purposes, what do you do during the summer with the peapod? Or do you simply us a pad? And is it so that the bug net and the peapod can't work at the same time?

[Quoddy]

Interesting! You have exactly the set up as I was planning on getting before I started this thread. Besides being great for winter purposes, what do you do during the summer with the peapod? Or do you simply us a pad? And is it so that the bug net and the peapod can't work at the same time?

I tend to go from summer to rest of the year set ups with little in between. In the summer, if it's cool, I've been using the thin pad that supports my pack as a virtual frame along with a sleeping bag. In the spring and fall when I remove the netting and go to the Peapod, the warmth is adjusted by how sealed up I make the top of the PP. When it gets really cold I add a Feathered Friends Winter Wren (great for hammocking) and seldom need to use a pad with all that down in, above, and below the Speer.

[photomankc]

I will add another point of data if you have not already been overwhelmed.

I have the Clark NA and so far it has been a little bit of a struggle to me for get to the point of sleeping well. I'll lay out a few things I have found in my experiance.

Pros:
- It's lighter than my small, "2" man tent I usually use. Hammock, lines, RX-200 fly, and stakes come in at 4.6lbs. My tent was around 5.5lbs.

- Top entry is great. I would not personally care at all for bottom entry.

- Separated fly allows for some options when you don't want to make camp and I like the coverage footprint better than a diamond fly personally. It takes a few extras to detach the fly but I like it that way.

- Pockets are great. I unload my pack into them at night and it beats the hell out of flopping pack lids and having crap scattered all over in a tent. With a little habit I can find the most needed items right away.

- The pockets CAN work as insulation to a degree but I prefer using a pad and I generally only camp in the Fall, Winter, and Spring. I find the hammock too hot to use in the summer and I hate hot weather anyway. Still, they add some options when the temps are in the lower 50's to 60's and I like having options.

- Good weight capacity which is needed because at 230lbs I'm not exactly a bean pole and I still have margin to accommodate my gear.

- Muted colors (camouflage in my case) means that I don't stand out off the trail. Makes me feel a little easier when I have to leave camp solo to get water or go hunting.


Cons:

- Knees.... no matter what I do or how I lay, one or both knees have some pressure on them they don't like. It's the number one reason I can't get to sleep and I'm still working on how to deal with it. With my pad and bag, warmth has never been a problem.

- I did not find the ropes to have the magical water shedding ability advertised. A serious downpour after some light rain all day had water running right down into the hammock on one trip. I requested and was given a set of the now omitted drip rings and testing seems to indicate that has solved the issue.

- I have trouble sleeping on my back which is the most comfortable position to me in the Clark. On my side I cramp after a long hike because of the curve in my hip that the hammock creates and the problem with my knees above.

- Setup time.... I still don't find it "easy". I have to set it up and test and then fiddle a bit to get it right. This sucks if it's raining. I'm not sure any hammock would do much better but I've been out on the trail 5 times now with lots of practice at home and I still notice it.

- Bug free space. In a tent I can bring my work inside when I need to do some task that takes time to complete and sit inside without being attacked by mosquitoes, ants, etc. With the hammock I can't. For bug defense you are either inside in it's limited space or you are outside.

- If you plan to spend a lot of time in the rain on a trip, a larger tarp will give you more coverage and better dry working space. I use a JRB 10x11 and I really like it when a long rain event is sitting on top of you. I hesitate to call it con so much as something to be aware of.

- Pad weight..... for me..... the only pads I have found comfortable are the Exped DownMats and they are boat anchors in weight (2.6lbs for the one I really like). I can't sleep on CCF pads personally in a hammock. The net result is only ounces of saved weight over my tent/thermarest setup but the flexibility of the hammock and the comfort of the system makes it a fine trade-off.


Last thoughts:
I really recommend looking at the Trucker's Hitch suspension system. It was a great way to make my Clark very easy to adjust and it requires NO modification of the rope. 2 SMC descending rings and two wraps of rope through them and I can quickly and easily adjust the lines even with the weight of my gear in the hammock. I highly recommend it.

Given the range of options and comfort of systems for warmth I would start by leaving that out of the choices. I would first and foremost look at what you find comfortable, maybe just get a cheapo hammock first and see if you can sleep in it and in what positions. Then go from there. Next look at what you want from it. Is it just a place to sleep while you hike or are you more interested in camping and hiking is how you get there? Are you needing to save every ounce that you can so you can make 15 miles a day or do you typically only move 5 to 7 miles a day and some extra weight is acceptable? Do want a chair for sitting and lounging in camp or do you only setup minutes from sundown? Once you have some selections then start looking at them to see what you will need to do to keep them warm and the weight and cost of those systems.

Your problem will be that you don't know what you don't know. I didn't know what kind of hammock I liked to sleep in prior to buying the Clark. I didn't know what kind of pad I would like. I didn't know what tasks I would want to do under the tarp. The best you can do is research as much as you can, make an informed selection and try it. It's not a turn-key solution and it's a lot harder to properly gauge selections here than it is with a tent. As you try things, start cheap and work up from there. Don't buy a $300 under quilt just to find that you don't sleep well on the bare hammock fabric.


Just my personal experience thus far. Hope it helps a bit.