Speer, Clark or something else?

[FarStar]

Chris.Biomed,

An amazing thread -- a 3-day orgy of information and opinion transfer. I'm late to the party, but I'm happy with my Speer Hammock and Winter Tarp. I've been comfortable using a 0.25-in foam pad with a 1-in Integral Designs quilt and a doubled over 1-in Jacks R Better Hiker/Biker Quilt on top of me while wearing a 200-weight fleece shirt. Comfort could/can be improved by finding a substitute for the foam pad, which can be tough to position just right, but the Speer wing pads help allow for quit a bit of slop in the positioning.

Last month I took my Hiker/Biker Quilt and set it up as an underquilt. It fell off twice, but the third attempt stayed up all night. The toastiness of an underquilt was quite amazing -- significantly more comfortable than a pad, and essentially no heat loss from underneath. The Integral Designs quilt provided more than enough top insulation, and I didn't employ that until I had cooled off. Not bad in a Pacific Northwet coastal drizzle.

Using the pad I always noted a distinct, but not uncomfortable, sense of heat loss on my back. That small loss was compensated for by 3 in of top insulation. By virtually eliminating the back heat loss with 1 in of good botton insulation, only 1 in of top insulation was needed to give me complete comfort in the cool, damp night temperatures that predominate out here. I'm planning on obtaining a Speer Snugfit as soon as I can scrape up the cash. I have no doubt that their Peapod would make winter hanging comfy, so I'll likely start saving for one right after I get a Snugfit

Another reason I like the Speer outfit is it's simple, modular design. I have yet to deploy my bugnet, because bugs aren't much of a problem out here, and night temperatures are usually low enough, even in the summer, to send whatever bugs that might be present, into an overnight hibernation. My favorite outdoor shelter has always been a tarp, as that allows one to feel connected to the outdoors. I don't understand those who head outside then shut themselves up in a tiny tent or enclosed hammock. While the geek in me lusts after a Clark NA and desires to play with all its features, I'll have plenty of time to spend in an small, enclosed space once I quit breathing.

Good shopping,

FarStar

[photomankc]

Chris.Biomed,
My favorite outdoor shelter has always been a tarp, as that allows one to feel connected to the outdoors. I don't understand those who head outside then shut themselves up in a tiny tent or enclosed hammock. While the geek in me lusts after a Clark NA and desires to play with all its features, I'll have plenty of time to spend in an small, enclosed space once I quit breathing.

Good shopping,

FarStar

I've not found the Clark to feel enclosing. Without the Weather Shield deployed it feels quite open. If the conditions are not stormy I simply pitch my tarp high and with branches to hold the edges out flat and I get a great view even though the bug net.... very much needed here in Missouri well into late fall.

I do wish the net and shield could be removed for times when not needed. However, the shield has come in handy when rain gave way to swirling mist.

I'd like to try a Speer some time and see how it like it.

[Chris.Biomed]

There are just so many options! And now Warbonnetguy is selling an awesome blackbird hammock (really want to try that one out!)

Back on track...
I was out camping with my buddy a few nights ago (crazy pictures will be added to my gallery), we brought along a HHULBA and a no net DD, we took turns in sleeping in the two as our plan was to evaluate the two different hammocks and see what it was that we liked and what we would have changed. We both came to the conclusion that the HH won by far over the dd, I even abandoned it half way during the first night, while he managed to sleep the whole night. The problem was that the pad together with the shoulder squeeze made it all very cold. The dd will only be used in the future for lounging around, and not for sleeping. However we enjoyed the top entry and the no fuss set up of it, really nice. As for the hh, comfy comfy! Great stuff when set up correctly (using the side elastics so as not to have the hammock fabric covering the face). Yet the bottom entry was claustrophobic and a nuisance when using it with a pad, as we both experienced that when we finally got everything perfectly with the pad and sleeping bag our bladder started to to say "hey, as you've finally stopped moving around, I just wanted to let you know that I won't last the night".

So why not a Warbonnet blackbird? It has the top entry and the supposed comfort of a hh, or should I just try my luck with the sewing machine and add a zipper to my HHULBA? As for insulation I've been leaning on the thought of making my own uq or purchasing a JRB.

[bristolview]

Chris, I cannot speak for other hammocks, but I just went winter camping in a Clark NA with multiple days of 9 degrees F (about -13 C). That's pretty darn cold. I was pretty impressed by the performance of the Clark. I used no underquilt, just the pockets on the hammock. I stuffed extra gear in the pockets, and in others I experimented with various other stuff such as leaves. Finally, I started settling on inflated plastic bags, ziplock freezer bags. This creates quite a thick piece of static air under you, easily enough to stop the moving air below from robbing you of heat. This gap seemed to make quite a difference, as simple as it is (the Clark rep told me that hint). I wasn't warm and cozy per se, but I was reasonably comfortable. I think most of the hammocks discussed in this thread are pretty nice all things considered, each handles things differently. The stormshield on the Clark also traps in large amounts of heat, and when you really need, you can close up the rainfly like a giant pea. I never did that last part, but didn't need to.

I'm convinced on the Clark NA for myself. Not needing to carry an additional UQ saves weight and space in a backpack. A complete winter shelter for less than 3 lbs? Nice. The pockets are about worthless on their own, but filled with gear you already take hiking (layers of clothing, socks, boots, even leaves from the ground, etc) they are quite effective. I don't want to carry extra gear to wrap my shelter, when I can reuse stuff in my pack I need anyway. People here have shown that any of these hammock options can be made to work, each with differing strengths, benefits and weaknesses. For me, I want to carry as little as possible, but still have a bomb proof shelter for all seasons. The Clark NA offers me that (not that others couldn't too), and I'm happy with it, even in winter. No top quilt, no bottom quilt needed. Good sleeping bag is still essential. Oh yeah, I don't use a pad either.

[Chris.Biomed]

Chris, I cannot speak for other hammocks, but I just went winter camping in a Clark NA with multiple days of 9 degrees F (about -13 C). That's pretty darn cold. I was pretty impressed by the performance of the Clark. I used no underquilt, just the pockets on the hammock. I stuffed extra gear in the pockets, and in others I experimented with various other stuff such as leaves. Finally, I started settling on inflated plastic bags, ziplock freezer bags. This creates quite a thick piece of static air under you, easily enough to stop the moving air below from robbing you of heat. This gap seemed to make quite a difference, as simple as it is (the Clark rep told me that hint). I wasn't warm and cozy per se, but I was reasonably comfortable. I think most of the hammocks discussed in this thread are pretty nice all things considered, each handles things differently. The stormshield on the Clark also traps in large amounts of heat, and when you really need, you can close up the rainfly like a giant pea. I never did that last part, but didn't need to.

I'm convinced on the Clark NA for myself. Not needing to carry an additional UQ saves weight and space in a backpack. A complete winter shelter for less than 3 lbs? Nice. The pockets are about worthless on their own, but filled with gear you already take hiking (layers of clothing, socks, boots, even leaves from the ground, etc) they are quite effective. I don't want to carry extra gear to wrap my shelter, when I can reuse stuff in my pack I need anyway. People here have shown that any of these hammock options can be made to work, each with differing strengths, benefits and weaknesses. For me, I want to carry as little as possible, but still have a bomb proof shelter for all seasons. The Clark NA offers me that (not that others couldn't too), and I'm happy with it, even in winter. No top quilt, no bottom quilt needed. Good sleeping bag is still essential. Oh yeah, I don't use a pad either.

That is just amazing! I got the NA before Christmas yet I haven't tried it yet, temps are holding me back, but if you can do it in those temps and with out a pad then I just might have to give it a try this weekend... it's going to be sooo cold!

[fin]

I've done 21* F (about -6C) in my Clark NA with only a 0* bag inside the hammock comfortably, and nothing but my boots and extra jacket in the pockets. If you add insulation in the pockets, and then throw a light UQ like a neat sheet or even a fleece blanket underneath the hammock, it helps to trap even more heat in the dead space between the pockets underneath the NA.

[BillyBob58]

So let's try to tip the balance. Let's compare the total price and weight for as identical systems as possible.

-HH ULBA (with overcover, undercover, pad and new snakeskins): about 53oz and 375 USD
-Speer (with snugfit, but without a overcover): about 67oz and 540 USD
-JRB's bear mountain bridge (their complete three season set): 98oz and 799USD
-Clark NA: about 47oz and 299 USD

I'm surprised, I really thought that the Clark was the most expensive of them all but it is in fact the cheapest option out there and is also the lightest

Can someone think of anything else that tips the balance in any other way? How is the craftsmanship of these hammocks? Comfort? Ease of setting up or tearing down? Bulk? Etc..

Chris, maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems to me that this is such an apples and oranges deal , that I don't see how you can really make any useful comparison. Or maybe it is useful, but I'm somewhat confused trying to make exact comparisons.

For one thing, you need to remove the cost and weight of skins and over cover from the HH in order to compare to the Speer with Snugfit, plus account for the wind/spray block of the UC and OC. While OTOH, I suspect the Speer/SF will be warmer than the SS if wind and fog and sideways rain/mist/snow are not a factor. Hard to compare- apples and oranges! When comparing to the Clark ( sorry, I am not very familiar with that model) is the weight and warmth of the pad and UC/OC ( or Speer SF?) already accounted for? I know the Clark has pockets, but you still have to account for something insulative to put in the pockets, right? And does the Clark have something the equivalent of an OC/UC? ( Pardon my ignorance on the Clark, I think it does account for these things some how?)

Then, when you look at the BMBH 3 season set, you have now thrown in a top quilt along with the bottom quilt. Plus stakes, stl lines, and a larger (than most) 11x10 tarp. Both money and weight wise, that accounts for a lot. I'm not sure how a Clark with just empty pockets could compete for warmth with a Hudson River UQ, but again maybe I'm missing something and maybe it can? But it seems almost certain that you need to add the weight and cost of a top quilt back to the Clark and the others, to make a fair comparison. And cost wise, you could replace the HRUQ with a pad in the BMBH, and you might not know the pad is there. Or at least, I find a pad easier to use in this hammock, by a good margin, than any other.

Just to add to the possibilities, how about:
Speer hammock/tarp plus standard Peapod: 74 oz $447, plus includes some top insulation. And of course, don't forget a WBBB and torso UQ!

There are a lot of good approaches, are there not?

[Chris.Biomed]

Chris, maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems to me that this is such an apples and oranges deal , that I don't see how you can really make any useful comparison. Or maybe it is useful, but I'm somewhat confused trying to make exact comparisons.

For one thing, you need to remove the cost and weight of skins and over cover from the HH in order to compare to the Speer with Snugfit, plus account for the wind/spray block of the UC and OC. While OTOH, I suspect the Speer/SF will be warmer than the SS if wind and fog and sideways rain/mist/snow are not a factor. Hard to compare- apples and oranges! When comparing to the Clark ( sorry, I am not very familiar with that model) is the weight and warmth of the pad and UC/OC ( or Speer SF?) already accounted for? I know the Clark has pockets, but you still have to account for something insulative to put in the pockets, right? And does the Clark have something the equivalent of an OC/UC? ( Pardon my ignorance on the Clark, I think it does account for these things some how?)

Then, when you look at the BMBH 3 season set, you have now thrown in a top quilt along with the bottom quilt. Plus stakes, stl lines, and a larger (than most) 11x10 tarp. Both money and weight wise, that accounts for a lot. I'm not sure how a Clark with just empty pockets could compete for warmth with a Hudson River UQ, but again maybe I'm missing something and maybe it can? But it seems almost certain that you need to add the weight and cost of a top quilt back to the Clark and the others, to make a fair comparison. And cost wise, you could replace the HRUQ with a pad in the BMBH, and you might not know the pad is there. Or at least, I find a pad easier to use in this hammock, by a good margin, than any other.

Just to add to the possibilities, how about:
Speer hammock/tarp plus standard Peapod: 74 oz $447, plus includes some top insulation. And of course, don't forget a WBBB and torso UQ!

There are a lot of good approaches, are there not?

Please read on to comment 28-30.

[2Trees]

Hello Chris,
Not sure where you're at on your lightest-weight hammock decision.

Here's my 2 cents...

-Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Backpacker Asym
-Get the #2 bugnet zipper mod. (by 2Q and ZQ).
-HH #4 Snakeskins
-HH Super Shelter (forget the foam pad)
-Speer PeaPod w/ 2oz. of overfill
-Warbonnet SuperFly
-A nice goose down jacket and Cabelas goose down drawers (pants).

This should keep you warm down into subzero temps, no problem.
The HH ULBP Asym is very lightweight. The zipper mod will allow you to use the PeaPod. You will always have the option of using the bugnet. You can put the HH Super Shelter over the top of the PeaPod to hold in more heat. With the added goose down jacket and goose down pants, you will be ready if the weather turns very cold. The Warbonnet SuperFly will enclose completely and this will help hold in the heat and keep your gear dry. The HH #4 SnakeSkins will be a little larger to allow you to wrap the overcover, undercover, and HH ULBP Asym all together (with out the PeaPod, of course.). All of this will compress very small in your pack, is very lightweight, and now gives you a 4-season setup.

Hope this helps.
cheers,
~mark

[Chris.Biomed]

Hello Chris,
Not sure where you're at on your lightest-weight hammock decision.

Here's my 2 cents...

-Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Backpacker Asym
-Get the #2 bugnet zipper mod. (by 2Q and ZQ).
-HH #4 Snakeskins
-HH Super Shelter (forget the foam pad)
-Speer PeaPod w/ 2oz. of overfill
-Warbonnet SuperFly
-A nice goose down jacket and Cabelas goose down drawers (pants).

This should keep you warm down into subzero temps, no problem.
The HH ULBP Asym is very lightweight. The zipper mod will allow you to use the PeaPod. You will always have the option of using the bugnet. You can put the HH Super Shelter over the top of the PeaPod to hold in more heat. With the added goose down jacket and goose down pants, you will be ready if the weather turns very cold. The Warbonnet SuperFly will enclose completely and this will help hold in the heat and keep your gear dry. The HH #4 SnakeSkins will be a little larger to allow you to wrap the overcover, undercover, and HH ULBP Asym all together (with out the PeaPod, of course.). All of this will compress very small in your pack, is very lightweight, and now gives you a 4-season setup.

Hope this helps.
cheers,
~mark

Nice setup, yet I would most likely swap the peapod for a DIY quilt or a JrB quilt to save on weight and cash. And ditch the UC in favour of a larger tarp.

As I already have the ULBA I'm thinking of sewing on mod #3. Can't really afford to ship it to USA and back at 60 USD (way too pricey!). After that I believe I'll attempt to make my own UQ (ala Warbonnet) and cap it off with a Black cat tarp! So in other words I'll have to become an expert with the sewing machine Maybe treat it like my gun in the army and sleep with it in my arms at night.