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  1. #11
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    I, too, think this is an interesting product. I don't think the need for a 3-point suspension is a huge problem. You could achieve "shoulder width" with a collapsed trekking pole (or two, in tendem) as a spreader, but I bet it gets very tippy if you have to hang from just two trees. I'm intrigued by the suspension of the foot end.

    It seems to me that this competes well with the Exped Ergo + Down Air Mattress. (Note - I haven't seen or used either setup. so that's a guess.)

  2. #12
    Reminds me of the High Peak Panda.
    The panda is heavier but a lot cheaper as well.
    http://grizzlymike.com/camping/High_...BAG_00204.HTML

  3. #13
    New Member MadTree's Avatar
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    Hello

    Since I'm new here let me introduce myself, My name's Elias Annila and I work at MadTree. We were very kindly notified by BER about this conversation going on about our product and were asked to join the discussion so here I am.

    So to answer your questions regarding our product.

    The reason why we use 3 suspension points is because of the way the Tarseer has been built. the suspension cords are not just attached to the ends of the hammock but they run trough the entire length of the weight bearing fabric. this allows more even weight distribution and greater strength while reducing overall amount of fabrics required (because Tarseer has 2 layers with down between it is crucial to avoid any excess surface area as this would greatly increase weight) Because of this structure simple 2 point hang would result in considerable shoulder squeeze. As WV and BER already pointed out Tarseer can be suspended using two trees, either by using thick enough tree at head end of the hammock or by using temporary spreader bar. To make use of spreader bar easier we have connected small loops to the suspension straps at the head end in order to secure the temporary spread bar easily to the straps. Tarseer is no more tippy than any hammock I've slept in when suspended from two points.

    Tarseer is indeed designed primarily for our northern climate where even summer nights rarely are warmer than around 55 degrees F (~13C) but sleeping with zipper open warmer conditions should not be a problem. This being said during hot summer days in sunshine Tarseer will no doubt become unbearably hot and as such is not really suitable for daytime hanging. Hottest nights I've slept trough in it were around 65 F and although I was warm I was not sweating.

    Down compression is not an issue, as I described earlier the weight bearing fabric is supported along it's entire length which reduces stretch significantly. Of course the bottom half is still differentially cut.

    Tarseer does not give completely flat lay, (how flat check out this image http://www.madtree.fi/napsackbanner.png) As you can see legs will lay near completely flat with upper body slightly raised. One can also sleep in Tarseer comfortably on their side.

    The mosquito net is sewn directly to the Tarseer so that it covers the top half of the hammock. Entry is trough zipper.

    As far as price is concerned we believe it to be reasonable. Of course everyone makes their own opinions on this matter but I would like to make people see few points. 1. with Tarseer there's no need for any additional top or underquilts, nor sleeping bags or mattresses. 2. We use high quality materials which do not come free to us. 3. Each Tarseer is handmade by us and creating something this complex does take time. We sincerely hope that price does not set our products out of reach for those who need them but as things stand we're unable to drop the price.

    I hope I have covered all the questions raised so far in this (ridiculously) long post, I hope someone bothered to read it to the end That being said if there's something more you'd like to ask I'd be happy to do my best to come up with answers

    Oh and the high peak Panda definatly looks cool as well, it seems on first look to me they're having a bit different kind of system for the bottom insulation and couple other differences as well but I leave it up to them to comment on their products.

    Happy Hanging!
    Elias
    Last edited by MadTree; 07-24-2012 at 17:23. Reason: typo

  4. #14
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    Elias, thanks for joining the discussion. The Tarseer looks very interesting, indeed. Dutch is somewhere in Sweden right now. Can you send one back with him?

  5. #15
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    Elias,

    Thank you for coming to answer questions about the Tarseer. If I may ask a couple more, do you have any pictures with the bug net deployed? In your site store your picture of the red/black Tarseer indicates that it has the built in bugnet. I am guessing that it is rolled along the medial edge of the left hand red support? Does it extend down to the bottom of the central insulation zipper? Does it zip to the opposite red support? How is it maintained closed at the head/foot ends?

    If I may ask, what did you sleep in before you developed the Tarseer? (Are you the owner/ developer of the MadTree Tarseer? I assumed, but I guess your introduction states you work at MadTree. )The geometry of the Tarseer would suggest a "bridge-hammock-like" build. Did you use a bridge hammock previously?

    Welcome to the community, and again, thank you for joining the discussion.
    Any additional pictures you have of the Tarseer in use would, of course, be grand.
    Last edited by BER; 07-25-2012 at 10:47. Reason: Corrected spelling: bugnet

  6. #16
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    Freudian slip?

    Quote Originally Posted by BER View Post
    Elias,

    Thank you for coming to answer questions about the Tarseer. If I may ask a couple more, do you have any pictures with the budget deployed? In your site store your picture of the red/black Tarseer indicates that it has the built in bugnet. I am guessing that it is rolled along the medial edge of the left hand red support? Does it extend down to the bottom of the central insulation zipper? Does it zip to the opposite red support? How is it maintained closed at the head/foot ends?

    If I may ask, what did you sleep in before you developed the Tarseer? The geometry of the Tarseer would suggest a "bridge-hammock-like" build. Did you use a bridge hammock previously?

    Welcome to the community, and again, thank you for joining the discussion.
    Aha! You're figuring out if you can justify buying one. FWIW ($0.02), if the workmanship on this hammock is as good as it appears, I don't think it's overpriced.

    Good questions about the bugnet, BER.

    Elias, you say you lie with your legs horizontal and your back sloping down a bit. I would have thought that raising the foot end even higher would let you lie with body level and feet slightly elevated. That's what I try to achieve with a diagonal position in a conventional hammock because it keeps me from sliding toward the foot end. There are reported benefits to sleeping with the feet raised, too. Would that work with the Tarseer?
    Last edited by WV; 07-25-2012 at 08:15.

  7. #17
    New Member MadTree's Avatar
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    I've included some images with the bugnet deployed (links below), the bugnet is our newest addition to Tarseer and we haven't yet managed to get proper product pictures up. The bugnet you can see in the Red tarseer product image is sligtly different from the current production model. The bugnet is operated with central zipper that runs from tip of the foot end to the top of the hood. The net is sewn within the seam between the red and black fabric as well as to the seam on top of the hood and a seam running accross footbox.

    Lifting legs up to get your upper body lay flat is possible but has some disadvantages in my opinion. 1. I find it less comfortable but I suppose this is a matter of personal preference. It's worthwhile noting that I mostly sleep on my side so this might be different for back sleepers 2. the weight bearing fabric is sewn to the dyneema cords running along the sides only at the head end. This allows sleeper to more freely bend their knees and hips when sleeping on their side as the fabric can freely move along the dyneema cords. If the foot end is suspended too high it will result in Tarseer sliding towards the head end and this will result in cramped sleeping experience for taller users.

    My apologies if my introduction was misleading. MadTree is owned fifty-fifty by me and my good friend Toni Nylund, we also operate the business between two of us. The initial design of Tarseer was mostly developed by me but we have of course worked together with Toni to tune it into final product.

    To tell you truth BER I had very limited experience in hammock camping before starting to develop Tarseer. I have been mostly a ground sleeper, but after my hikes started to turn more and more towards long and light direction I thought i needed something more compact and comfy than sleeping bag/mattress combination. I'm still a bit unsure if Tarseer is insulated hammock or suspendable sleeping bag?

    Elias

    http://madtree.fi/hammockforumimages/side.JPG
    http://madtree.fi/hammockforumimages/open.JPG
    http://madtree.fi/hammockforumimages/footend.JPG
    http://madtree.fi/hammockforumimages/head%20end.JPG

    To see some more pics of the Tarseer in action (and a lot of other goofing around) check out our facebook page https://www.facebook.com/madtreeOutdoor
    Last edited by MadTree; 07-25-2012 at 10:10. Reason: added images

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Aha! You're figuring out if you can justify buying one. FWIW ($0.02), if the workmanship on this hammock is as good as it appears, I don't think it's overpriced.
    Hahaha. **** iPad autocorrect! I will admit I am intrigued. Just questioning whether I "need" one as my wife pretty much keeps me ground-bound. $600 is a high price merely for curiosity. But...

    I would note that in my DIY bridge hammocks my upper body is slightly raised above my legs. I, too, prefer it that way. The Eureka Chrysalis also had a similar lay in my experience.

    Thank you for the additional pictures Elias. They make the bug net issue much more clear. It really looks like an interesting product.

  9. #19
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    Elias,

    Looking more at your pictures and a couple more questions come to mind based on the photo I referenced above. How long of a spreader bar are you using there? And if you don't mind me asking, how wide is the red structural fabric at the head end?

    Just trying to compare to my favorite DIY bridge hammock which has a head-end fabric width of 48" and uses a spreader of 42". (Note my preference is a bit wider than "the average" for DIY bridges here on HF)

    BER
    Last edited by BER; 07-26-2012 at 08:23.

  10. #20
    New Member MadTree's Avatar
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    The spreader bar I'm using there is 28inches (70cm) and the fabric is around 35 inches (90cm) wide at the head end however the widest spread you can achieve is about 31 inches (80cm) due to other structures of the hood.

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