that you have again advanced the art! True American spirit too.
that you have again advanced the art! True American spirit too.
Hey guys, just ordered a RR, not arrived yet but super excited.
Planning on using it with a ccf pad as my uq has given up the ghost and has been relegated to summer camping only. Going to swap out th3 suspension for my own whoopie slings and run an adjustable structural ridgeline too. My only concern is how its going to sit under my usual tarp setup for mild weather ,, a golite poncho tarp
You may need a larger tarp?
- Loki my videos
"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.
Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees.
The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy,
while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn." — John Muir
Affreeman, I think I missed this thread when it was started almost a year ago, I don't remember it anyway. I believe this is my first reading of it. It was a great initial review, and I would love to see a follow up by you after most of a year to play with it all.
One thing I found extra interesting is that you were comparing it to some of my favorite hammocks, a JRB BMBH UL ( though I have and like the original and UL) and the hammock I started with: The HH Explorer UL. And I thought it particularly fascinating that you said: " I would say that this hammock is slightly less comfortable than my Hennessy". Wow! That is a surprising statement considering the consensus around here. So that is why it would be great to know if you have changed your opinion over time?
Of course, like you said and as we know from the answers we see here to questions like "what is the best hammock", comfort is quite subjective and perceived comfort can vary with the individual. Plus, the opinion of most comfy hammock to use might change when you throw in the ease of sure fire insulation, because warmth is certainly part of comfort. And for me all of these bridge hammocks rate very high in that area, whether using UQs or pads. Still, I think the consensus around here might be that the RR is more comfy than most any other hammock, and for sure some rate it as way more comfy.
But, I'm wondering: if for YOU(or anyone else), the RR ( or any bridge ) is not actually at least a little MORE comfortable than your other hammocks, why would anyone bother with spreader bars, increased weight, tarp issues and and extra couple of feet required between the trees? Maybe ease of insulation would be one reason? Or maybe a better view from the hammock? Any thoughts after many months of use?
While I can not speak for affreeman, I can say that the WBRR is the most comfortable hammock I've laid in thus far. I've been enjoying a tropical storm that is moving through VA in my ridge runner yesterday and today and I am thus far impressed. I have used a HH explorer Deluxe for several years and it is night and day different. I've always struggled to get the perfect lay, while keeping my UQ/pad in the right spot...or attempting to sleep on my side and moving off of the sweet spot. The RR solves every complaint I've had about my hennessey.
A Thermarest (size large) pad fits perfectly in the double layer and does not suffer the same worries as a down UQ in a rainstorm. My buddy that has been enduring this trip with me has struggled to keep his UQ dry. I actually find a pad in the RR more comfortable than using an UQ....my opinion. It elevates me up about an inch, which helps my arms clear the stiff fabric sown into the edges of the fabric for support. It also is a completely flat lay. No muss, no fuss...perfectly flat every time.
As far as the tarp issues, I purchased a cloudburst tarp with the RR. I have found that the pull outs are non optional...a must have for anything beyond sunny skies and no wind. The tarp was made to work with bridge hammocks so no issues there.
For me, my HH Exp Deluxe needed an almost identical span between trees, so I have not noticed a change there. I am 6'4" so those UL hammocks were never possible for me. And the view from this thing should be its selling point! Any gathered end hammock I've ever used has blocked at least 70% of the surrounding views...not so with this baby. You have an almost unobstructed view...
So far, the extra weight has been the only thing that I can find that gives a gathered end hammock an advantage. I have been far more impressed than I anticipated with it!
Many good points there, Talon! I'd say a lot (maybe most?) folks share your feelings on those comparisons.Originally Posted by BlackTalon
You are yet another person making a good argument for pads with bridge hammocks. I mean, if for you it is actually more comfy- or even as comfy- I'm not sure why any one would choose an UQ? Room in the pack maybe. And if I put my 25" wide Neoair in my original model JRB bridge, all shoulder squeeze issues disappear and I can lay full fetal with no issues. I have really debated over the years switching back to this approach. But then again, there is something appealing to me at least about being snuggled down into a BMBH with the UQ coming well up above me on the sides, and the TQ naturally draping ( funneling?) down into the hammock to minimize drafts, often a problem with TQs. Plus I can lean back into the hammock sides which is also into the UQ. I have not had a lot of trial yet with this pad either in my WBRR or BMBH, but I suspect I might miss the UQ coming over the sides.
I go back and forth over the years. I tend to really lean towards bridge hammocks, but I have never been able to totally give up on the possible advantages of non-bridge hammocks. For me the areas where (all) bridges have hands down superiority are:
1: never any worries about my knees or calf pressure when back sleeping. With some of my non-bridge I can do fine with this most of the time, but with some it is an endless problem, and even with the best it might be a problem if I am not positioned perfectly and/or if the hammock is not hung perfectly.
2: insulation always seems easier and more consistent with any bridge, whether with UQs or pads. With the possible exception of a PeaPod on certain hammocks, which also is easy and consistent, and may even have an advantage for top warmth with no drafts. And I have found my short MW3 convertible is really sweet and lightweight with both my JRBs and my WBRR.
3: when non-fetal- or only slight fetal- side sleeping.
But the main number one thing with me is #1 from that list, that is where bridges are king for me. If I am talking upper body comfort when back sleeping, or fetal position in several of my hammocks like my HH Explorer UL, or even side sleeping with legs straight in 1 or 2 of my non-bridge(Claytor NN, HH Safari, maybe WL?) I can see no advantage comfort wise to any bridge. In fact, if fetal position I'd say the advantage is with the non-bridge. Of course, that's just me, and people vary.
So since I am plenty happy to sleep in fetal position in my HH Explorer UL/HHSS, I often find myself trying to figure out why I want to fool with spreader bars/extra weight and tarp hassles or much bigger tarps.
But then again, there is that sure knowledge that if I lay on my back, I am never going to feel that cursed pressure point in my lower legs or any knee extension. And there is that superb quilt fit. And of course, if a pad is in the equation, there simply is no debate for me. It is a bridge hammock, period.
I was surprised you didn't see much difference in distance between trees need for a WBRR vs HH Explorer. A lot of times if I go hiking locally, I will go to a spot where I use trees I have used several times before at my favorite spots. More than once, I have not been able to use those trees (with the WBRR) because there was not quite enough distance, trees I have used before with my HH Explorer UL or other hammocks with no issue. Of course, I can usually find other trees nearby, but still, I notice the difference.
It is hard to tell in the field but from hanging the two side by side, the long suspension triangles make it look like a further distance, IMHO. In my DIY hammock stand in the backyard, I made it to be just long enough to accommodate the HH with the Whoopies drawn all the way in. I was concerned that I would not be able to use the stand for my RR, but to my surprise it fit perfectly.
I attached carabiners to the eyes in my stand, and connected them to the amsteel holding the suspension triangles for the strap suspension. It was a perfect distance. I would guess they are within 1ft of each other for minimum gap...so 6in on either side longer for min gap is a small penalty. It shocked me with all the attention it gets on the forums.
I will throw them both up and take some measurements...I'll post the results as soon as I'm done. Maybe my eyes were fooling me?
My RR minimum distance to achieve a correct hang is 150 inches.
My HH minimum distance to achieve a tight hang is 128 inches. That is with no suspension, hooking to the dog bones coming off the fabric.
Neither distances are ideal, but that is the min from my measurements. Less than 2ft (which is more than I thought) seperate the two at the extreme close end.
2 ft, that sounds about right comparing to some hammocks. My HH Explorer UL ( a longer HH) has a 108" RL, my very long Safari has 112", I think a WBBB has maybe 100"? But some amount needs to be added to each end for end knots/covers etc, I don't know, what, maybe 4" for each end? So 8" plus maybe another 8" ( 4 for each end) to leave minimum room for getting an HH lashing or whatever done. So add 16" to a WBBB RL= 116" between trees, maybe 124" for HH Explorer.
Compared to 150" for your measurement of the WBRR, more like 164" between rings per Full Timer's measurement ( plus a little more to have room for a knot or biner). So looks like some where between 2 and 3 feet extra are needed. Which explains my experiences with my Vario stand. I can hang most of my hammocks with ease with it at it's shortest adjustment, all of my hammocks with it less than full length, but I can't even think about hanging my WBRR with using it at full length plus an extension bar.
My original BMBH suggested 114" between rings, but my JRB UL has a maximum suggested distance between the rings of 105". The WBRR requires about another 4 or 5 feet past that, if full timer is at all close on his measurements! Nearly 4 ft even by your measurements. That is a bunch. ( to be fair, I think a lot of folks find the BMBH more comfy with a little more distance than 105", but that is what JRB calls for as a max)
But what has surprised me is that it has really made a noticeable dif in the woods. My Vario stand is one thing, but you would think that out there with about a bazillion trees, finding two usable trees with a few more feet between them would never be much of an issue. But I have been surprised how often it has been an issue.
All of which is why I say I def need some extra comfort with a bridge, and especially with the WBRR bridge, to make up for wide spreader bars vs tarps, and length and weight. But for plenty of folks, it clearly has enough extra comfort to be worth all of that extra stuff to deal with.
I have actually only used my RR on two weekend hikes. I find it very comfortable, the UQ is a great design and is super easy to use and very effective. The Cloudburst tarp is huge and provides expansive living space.
But in the end it makes a relatively large and heavy package to carry, and I find traditional hammocks more comfortable. My current set up is a Darien UL and a Hammock Gear cuben tarp. I am going to sell both of my bridge hammocks and associated gear.
~
"Home is where I hang my food bag."
Monkeywrench
Allen Freeman
[email protected]
www.allenf.com
blog.allenf.com
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks