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  1. #31
    mountain_man_mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsamescott View Post
    Nice Mountain Man! I wouldn't mind a Climashield UQ for $25.

    Has anyone seen plans combining Climashield and Insutex in a UQ? I looked but cannot find anything. But if you ask my wife, I can never find anything so it probably exists. I am wondering how a a multi-layered insulated UQ would work. Do layers like the example below work well together?

    Ripstop Nylon
    Climashield APEX2.5
    Insultex
    Climashield APEX2.5
    Insultex
    Ripstop Nylon

    It would essentially be the same loft as the Climashield APEX5 but with two layers of Insultex. Would this have any significant increase in insulation compared to the simpler (and cheaper) single APEX5?

    The first set of gear our troop made 6+ years ago was with 2.5 oz. Climashield XP. I got a really generous donor to help out our project and it saved us a bunch of money. Two layers is supposed to get you to around 20* so that's what we did. We made TQ at the time, about 16 in all so we used some remnents along with the 4.0 oz Apex this time. Apex is reported to be easier to compress than XP, but we have not had in the field enough to confirm. It was a heckuva a project and the boys learned a lot about making and taking care of their own gear. When they are invested with time, money or both they sure treat their gear differently.

    We used 1.1 oz untreated for the inside of the UQ and 1.3 treated for the outer shell. I had them trace 2" wider and longer all the way around my UQ then cut the Climashield to fit inside, wrapped the edge of the 1.1 oz over the edge of the Climashield and stitched an edge. We followed with a similar flop and wrap technique with the treated material, using a rolled (fold over as you go) seam that also served as a channel for the shock cord. Tensioners for the ends were stitched in on one side and cord locked on the opposite and one cord lock for the suspension, which needed to be tugged tight to snug to the hammock.

    They work really well and the boys only have a few more nights to earn their merit badge. I am working on some neckerchief slides from potato vine clippings with a hammock between a couple "trees" as a special award for the first group.

    Good luck on your projects.
    Happy Trails to one and all.
    Enjoy the outdoors wisely and elevate your perspective.

    Modified Penny Wood Stove instructional Video-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fPlHqsYy38


    Hammock Wheel https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...09#post1035609


    Another Really cool JC Penny Puffer instructional- https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...141#post953141

  2. #32
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Good job on your quilt, now to the testing!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwchannell89 View Post
    So one layer of climashield might get you 30 degree? I may go this route instead of insulex.
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenwing View Post
    Make sure the CS you use to get down to 30* is 5 -6 ounces per yard. I have taken my CS HL 6oz down to 29* with adequate clothing and top insulation.
    That one layer of 5 oz/sq.yd should get a lot of folks to 30 or a bit below assuming fit is perfect, and especially for an UQ that can be a challenge. The devil is in a lot of little details.

    Thru - Hiker has rated the 5 oz to 20F, again with the assumption that all is perfect as far as drafts and being snug enough but not too snug so as to either compress loft or cause a poor fit etc etc etc, and so often it is not perfect.

    However, I have personally taken a 2.5 oz layer of CS to mid 40s, and was plenty warm with nothing else under me but jeans and cotton tee shirt. On top I had a 40-50F ancient quallofil liner bag used as quilt, and finally about 0500 I remembered I had a fleece hat and put it on.

    So, if 2.5 oz can take me to ~ 45 just fine ( 70-45=25F of protection ) then I would feel plenty safe expecting to get 30F out of 5 oz. Since 5 oz should be equal to about double my 2.5 oz's 25F worth of protection, it should have roughly about 50F worth of protection. 70-50= 20F. About like Thru-Hiker's rating. Or maybe use 75F-50F=25F. So 30 sure seems doable, if everything related to fit is just right.

    Having said all of that, the AHE KAQs ( Jarbidge, New River etc ) all have 6 oz/sq.yd. CS and are rated only to 30F. I've always felt they should be good for better than 30, and many a person here has reported sleeping warm at much cooler temps.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  3. #33
    Prefers life at 12 MPH. FLRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Good job on your quilt, now to the testing!





    That one layer of 5 oz/sq.yd should get a lot of folks to 30 or a bit below assuming fit is perfect, and especially for an UQ that can be a challenge. The devil is in a lot of little details.

    Thru - Hiker has rated the 5 oz to 20F, again with the assumption that all is perfect as far as drafts and being snug enough but not too snug so as to either compress loft or cause a poor fit etc etc etc, and so often it is not perfect.

    However, I have personally taken a 2.5 oz layer of CS to mid 40s, and was plenty warm with nothing else under me but jeans and cotton tee shirt. On top I had a 40-50F ancient quallofil liner bag used as quilt, and finally about 0500 I remembered I had a fleece hat and put it on.

    So, if 2.5 oz can take me to ~ 45 just fine ( 70-45=25F of protection ) then I would feel plenty safe expecting to get 30F out of 5 oz. Since 5 oz should be equal to about double my 2.5 oz's 25F worth of protection, it should have roughly about 50F worth of protection. 70-50= 20F. About like Thru-Hiker's rating. Or maybe use 75F-50F=25F. So 30 sure seems doable, if everything related to fit is just right.

    Having said all of that, the AHE KAQs ( Jarbidge, New River etc ) all have 6 oz/sq.yd. CS and are rated only to 30F. I've always felt they should be good for better than 30, and many a person here has reported sleeping warm at much cooler temps.
    Something that's worth noting is the CLO value system. I ran across a post a while back (it was somewhere here on the boards, and if anyone wants, I can probably dig it out given time) that said each CLO value is 14* below 84* F.

    Now, a normal base layer is about 1 CLO, and so most folks measure insulation based on 70* - CLO, seeing as how you're probably going to wear at least a base layer to bed. So, starting with that...

    APEX has a CLO/oz/sq yd value of 0.82 (per Thru-Hiker). So, 2.5 oz/sq yd APEX has a CLO value of 0.82 * 2.5 = 2.05. Which means that a single layer of 2.5 APEX should have a temperature rating (assuming a base layer worn) of 70 - (2.05 * 14) = 70 - 28.7 = 41.3* F...assuming perfect conditions and the mythical "average sleeper".

    Given real world fudge factors (humidity, wind, caloric deficit, dehydration, "cold" sleeper, etc.), 45* seems a reasonable rating for 2.5 APEX--which is right in line with your experience, BillyBob58.

    5 oz APEX should get one down to 12.6* F, according to that math. Buuut...drafts and exposed skin become much bigger factors below freezing. So, even more than above freezing, the numbers are a ballpark rather than a, "This is what temperature this insulation will let you sleep comfortably at," absolute statement. Testing is definitely a plus! It makes sense from that standpoint that Thru-Hiker would rate the 5 oz to 20-ish; it gives a buffer for folks who might not have ideal conditions.

    Hopefully the above equation will be helpful for folks trying to ballpark their synthetic insulation choices!

    It's also worth noting that the Arrowhead quilts are not APEX; they're a different flavor of Climashield (not sure which) that isn't as efficient as APEX (lower CLO/oz/sq yd value). This is the reason that Paul offers the APEX upgrade on his KAQ line--it's lighter for the warmth than the standard Climashield used.
    "Just prepare what you can and enjoy the rest."
    --Floridahanger

  4. #34
    New Member
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    Inspired

    Hi all - UK Noob here!

    Scooterbrown - great work!

    I'm toying with the idea of making something similar but with two layers of 2.5oz Apex; breakdown as follows:

    Working from the outside -

    Windproof breathable outer shell - Pertex or Nysil;
    Insulator - layer of 2.5oz Apex;
    Inner air-trap shell - pertex or Nysil;
    Secondary insulating layer - 2.5oz Apex;
    Radiant heat absorbing layer (next to the hammock) - 1.1oz black untreated ripstop.

    I'm thinking I'll be able to maximise the efficiency of the insulating layers by incorporating the breathable air-trapping layer of fabric hence the pertex / nysil.

    Any feedback on this will be appreciated.

    Will update if this gets off the ground.

  5. #35
    MDSH's Avatar
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    Very nice!

    It's big, eh? Should give excellent warmth.

    .
    Mike

    But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed. (Luke 5:16 NIV)

    He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36 ESV)

    While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. (1 Thessalonians 5:3 ESV)

  6. #36
    New Member
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    I wish to learn more

    Quote Originally Posted by E46330d View Post
    Hi all - UK Noob here!

    Scooterbrown - great work!

    I'm toying with the idea of making something similar but with two layers of 2.5oz Apex; breakdown as follows:

    Working from the outside -

    Windproof breathable outer shell - Pertex or Nysil;
    Insulator - layer of 2.5oz Apex;
    Inner air-trap shell - pertex or Nysil;
    Secondary insulating layer - 2.5oz Apex;
    Radiant heat absorbing layer (next to the hammock) - 1.1oz black untreated ripstop.

    I'm thinking I'll be able to maximise the efficiency of the insulating layers by incorporating the breathable air-trapping layer of fabric hence the pertex / nysil.

    Any feedback on this will be appreciated.

    Will update if this gets off the ground.
    I dig this idea. Does anyone have a perspective on using a internal vapor barrier layer?

  7. #37
    New Member
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    I know this is an old thread but I'm just trying to understand more before diving in. For the channels you just folded a 3.5 inch strip in half to make 1.75 inch channel then put the folded edge inside so when u flip it, it will be on the outside? Also is it 4 separate lines of shock cord? Sorry if these questions seem dumb, very new to the forum and trying to learn as much as I can.

  8. #38
    MAD777's Avatar
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    Yes to all the above! I think you're ready to start sewing!
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  9. #39
    New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD777 View Post
    Yes to all the above! I think you're ready to start sewing!
    Thank you! Just gotta place an order and get to work

  10. #40
    New Member
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    I know this is an old thread but was wondering what kind of results you had while testing this. Also I need some suggestions on thread and needle.

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