prices for used gear

[SilvrSurfr]

I decided a while ago against buying used gear from this forum or any other. It's used - one should expect a discount (20% sounds about right to me as a rule of thumb, depending on wear).

However, forum members continue to list used items at or near retail on this forum, and people continue to pay those prices. I don't understand the phenomenon, but I won't be a part of it.

[dakotaross]

Want to clarify that I meant outside of limited inventory including seasonal fluctuations in demand, and I should have included subsequent rise in cost of raw materials. Trying to hold all that stuff even in making my point. When things aren't even, due to one or more of these and/or the other circumstances I mentioned, then my feelings are not the same.

[HomeMadeHiker]

Precisely.

Its a function of supply and demand, and unseen costs. You can get it right now for $X or you can get it in three weeks for $X + $20 + shipping + tax if applicable.

Most sales of used items of all kinds include shipping in the price, and none are subject to sales tax.

I would love to get gear cheaper than the current prices but the stuff just doesnt devalue. But, to all you 20%-ers, I would wager that a $10 discount and omting shipping and tax would get you close to 20%all in most case Its there you just have to look, for it.

[miyanc]

this is same debate as " I don't like what's on that channel" the answer should always be then turn the channel or shut off the tv. It should never be everyone else should change because of my beliefs or feelings. I have been dealing with used stuff all my life( I am a younger brother so everything I got had been used). I was on ebay long before it became a business and was still referred to as the worlds largest treasure hunt. I frequent any forum for which I have any interest specifically hoping I find opportunity to be able to buy items I want at discounted prices. If not a discount then maybe I get something I could not purchase on my own. Maybe I see that warbonnet product maintain value well after purchase and although I may agree with the original post and would rather purchase new from them, the fact that its keeps its value is in itself an incredible resource. Most of what may start out as close to retail may end up getting lowered. We also don't see the final sale price only the asking price. I wish I had the money to purchase everything I need( ok so want fit better but I am obsessed) direct from a store or business. I don't have the luxury. I also have limited knowledge of how some things rate. I can read all the reviews, watch all the YouTube videos, ask all the questions but ultimately I need to pull the trigger and try something. I relish the opportunity to buy something used for less( and I usually only buy ay 50 to 60% of face value) or buy for new and realize its not right and try to sell at close to retail. That's why this is a great country I get to have my cake and eat it to.

[Redoleary]

I'd say I'd have to feel like I was getting a pretty good deal to buy some used equip. Which means I won't be buying a lot of used equipment.
I had always been a person who said I'd never buy a new car. That is until I wanted a Subaru and the price difference between a brand new one and one with 50-80K miles was so small I couldn't justify buying it used anymore. As others have said, its what the market will bear.

[wiscoman]

I'm a little worried I'm going to be in a minority opinion here based on free market economics, but...

It bothers me when I see used gear posted for very close to the list price of new gear offered by our fine cottage vendors. I personally would rather spend a few extra bucks and buy from those vendors rather than pay near-equivalent money for used gear, how ever lightly it might have been used.

I realize that much of the gear we use either works or it doesn't, and is typically pretty well cared for, and therefore, pretty much as good as new. But, there's no guarantee of this other than pics to show that it at least looks as if its as good as new. Shouldn't I expect to pay a discount of somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 20% or so off market value new? I mean off list price, but wouldn't that also apply to sale prices, if currently on sale, or if sales are recurring?

I suppose some would say that if a buyer is willing to pay you whatever you list it for, then there is no reason the seller shouldn't list it for whatever he can get. Outside of issues with lack of inventory or exorbitant shipping, I personally would feel like I'm trying to get something for nothing by listing gear, etc., without accounting for either diminished value, OR the value of another sale that I am taking away from the maker of the product. For North Face, Marmot, etc., its not an issue. However, I highly value the friendly competition fostered by the market we have created and the resulting innovation and broadening of available products/solutions. I know margins are slim and every little bit helps these guys/gals.

I'm not in favor of any arbitrary rule for selling used gear. Just thought I'd see if any others were thinking the same or similar, and thought it might be good to bring some awareness to the table if so. Am I just ranting by myself?

You hit it right on the nose! I could not agree more.

[LFCRed]

Dakotaross
I don't understand how a lower price for used gear would help the cottage vendors. I'm no economics expert but I would have thought that if something sold for a relatively high amount when used it would help vendors because the original purchaser would be taking less risk knowing they can sell it on without taking a big hit. Also if the used price is close to the new price more people would be likely to go with new wouldn't they?

[IRONFISH45]

Very interesting thread, I am an economics major, I found the discussion very interesting.

Some of us are tight with $, some of us believe in reusing things, some of us just like to hunt around for something purchased for under retail.
Different strokes for different folks. Sure you could use Ebay, they really have become Flea Bay these days, major difficulty when you receive junk.

I have purchased from HF, I was not happy with one transaction, however, I did not follow the suggestions posted at the begining of the "For Sale" warning, my fault. Now I select whom I will buy from very carelully. I know if they have been posting plus buying and selling they are probably okay to deal with.

It is up to the buyer to decide whom they will purchase from, and the seller also has choices, price and where to sell the item. Anyway very intersting conversation.

[bowl-maker]

I have been a hobby trader for many years and it is often as the OP describes. I decided long ago to assign my own value to the item and make an offer. if they say no I don't get emotionally invested. but yes people do tend to overprice things based off what they paid.

[dakotaross]

Dakotaross
I don't understand how a lower price for used gear would help the cottage vendors. I'm no economics expert but I would have thought that if something sold for a relatively high amount when used it would help vendors because the original purchaser would be taking less risk knowing they can sell it on without taking a big hit. Also if the used price is close to the new price more people would be likely to go with new wouldn't they?

Yes, this occurred to me as well as the fact that folks like me might buy new anyway even if there was a used product out there for sale, depending on the premium I would be paying to buy new - which by the way, includes the premium I'm willing to pay to support the cottage folks. So, you're right, higher prices for used gear can help the cottage folks as well, but there is potential for it to go the other way around. Economics is all theory anyway, there really are no hard and fast rules, though clearly there are basics to be respected... aren't we all learning that now in today's economy?

I appreciate everyone's posts and want to say that no one is wrong here. Clearly, its a seller's responsibility to say whether or not they are willing to pay a particular price. And clearly there are a lot of different circumstances that justify higher prices for used gear. And there's nothing inherently wrong about posting whatever price you want to see what you can get. I might do the same. But might not, considering I don't like to haggle and would want to price something fairly and feel like I participated in a trade of sorts instead of trying to minimize my own outlay of funds for essentially trying out a product. Truth be damned, though, its not like I've never got something at REI and returned it.

I haven't really heard anybody touch on the discount for the unknown, although some have commented on disappointing purchases. Some of that is going to happen, for sure, no matter how much is disclosed or accounted for in the price. It just seems to me that as a buyer, I'm taking a lot of risk in purchasing something at a very low discount (all other things being equal, as I said in my last post) compared to what I could buy from the cottage vendor, not only in terms of the condition of the product, but also because purchasing new gets you the benefit of the wonderful customer service that most of these folks offer. Although, I'm not sure what you still get if you didn't buy directly. I guess my point is not to chastise sellers, as much as it is to increase awareness for buyers of this discount discrepancy.

Anyway, its good to know there are a few others out there with similar sentiments and that my crazy subset is not 1. Thanks for responding.