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  1. #11
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Perhaps if he changed the name to "tree manglers" then nobody here on this forum would get upset?

    I never thought of survivalists as people who just didn't give a crap, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Gresh's Avatar
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    Regarding these, though...

    If you had a length of garden hose to go between the Amsteel and and the tree, how would that work out? Granted, it's not minimalist, but meh...

  3. #13
    Senior Member MDSH's Avatar
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    I think that we should organize. It's just a matter of time before someone wants to outlaw hanging from trees altogether.

    If we had a code of ethics and best practices then we would be easily distinguished from those that don't care ... because, face it, some don't. Just thinking out loud, as always ...

    Mike

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by titanium_hiker View Post
    To clarify, and to add:

    Sure, I firmly believe that you should use straps of at LEAST 1 inch (if not 1.5 inch) to protect the trees you hang from, but the jury is out. What kind of trees? what kind of bark? how long to hang from? Some have reported immediate visible damage, others none. BUT the big issue here is perception.

    The perception of the authorities (rangers etc) can be that hammocks, especially when suspended with wire, nails, or rope, damage trees and thus should be banned, along with anything else that gets hung on trees. Tree straps / tree huggers are changing this perception. Not so long ago it was illegal to hang in Florida state parks, but now you can, as long as you use huggers, which protect the tree.

    What about the tarp? In florida, bring huggers for that too.

    So, you might say that you have never seen any damage using these amsteel 'huggers' but this isn't really about 'evidence' - it's about the perceptions of the wider community. 1) so others don't pick up bad habits and 2) that hammocks are not banned, affecting the enjoyment of others.

    IF you must continue selling these, at the very least change the name, it is deceptive. This is not a tree hugger.
    ...wow, it appears that alot of you are upset with my selling of 7/64 amsteel as "tree huggers"...well rather than regurgitate a bunch of rhetoric from the iternet, let me introduce myself...

    i have been hammocking regularly since 2001, and have always been pack-weight concious due to my passion for long distance hiking and my understanding of the "the more you know, the less you carry" adage. while i am now new to this forum, i have frequented many sites over the years in my ever increasing quest for knowledge and have come across this dispute many times...

    you pretty much hit the nail on the head when you said what trees? how thick is the bark? how long are you hanging? how much do you weigh?

    i believe it is the hammockers responsibility to make sure that all criteria is being met to ensure no permanent damage is being done to the trees, if you weigh 280lbs and only have sensitive thin-skinned trees, by all means use webbing...

    here in the great-northwest we have TONS of trees, almost all of wich are thick barked and VERY healthy. most of our trees are some sort of fir with bark a few inches thick mixed in with cedars, maples or alder. i have been hanging on the same trees, in the same handful of local hangouts for over 10 years with no degredation of the trees visually or otherwise...

    i guess what im saying is: if you cant use amsteel, then dont. if you'd rather use webbing because it makes you feel like you are sending the right "message" to the authorities, go ahead. if you want to use webbing because you are a bigger person or have trees that dont lend themselves to the use of something smaller and lighter, please be my guest...

    but please dont chastise those of us who know our products and our environments well enough to choose one product over another because it is smaller, faster, lighter and stronger...saying an unbrella statement like: "amsteel hurts trees" is as ignorant as saying "guns kill people"...

    nice to meet you...

  5. #15
    Senior Member Gresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushcraftbasics View Post
    i believe it is the hammockers responsibility to make sure that all criteria is being met to ensure no permanent damage is being done to the trees, if you weigh 280lbs and only have sensitive thin-skinned trees, by all means use webbing...
    Well said. Though you come off just a touch defensive, I understand from whence you come and even agree with you in part. A lot of people put a lot of thought into weight and ease of use.

    I think (from a newbie perspective) the problem is in the way things are viewed from a Ranger's perspective (or from somebody who practices Leave No Trace). Too often is the case that people take things for granted in parks and trash the place (leaving nails in trees for instance) and it gives everybody who does anything tree-related a bad image.

    While I don't personally subscribe to the "you're murdering the trees" mentality (because let's face it...trees are more resilient than we are in many cases) that surrounds using webbing tree huggers vs. just some sort of rope suspension, I think for the sake of image it may be best (at least in public parks, etc...on private land it's up to the landowner) to exercise a bit of caution regarding how you suspend.

    Just my $0.02.

  6. #16
    hppyfngy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushcraftbasics View Post
    i guess what im saying is: if you cant use amsteel, then dont. if you'd rather use webbing because it makes you feel like you are sending the right "message" to the authorities, go ahead. if you want to use webbing because you are a bigger person or have trees that dont lend themselves to the use of something smaller and lighter, please be my guest...

    but please dont chastise those of us who know our products and our environments well enough to choose one product over another because it is smaller, faster, lighter and stronger...saying an unbrella statement like: "amsteel hurts trees" is as ignorant as saying "guns kill people"...

    nice to meet you...
    I think the issue some have with your approach is that you take no responsibility for potential damage that Amsteel cordage certainly can do to trees, in less than knowledgeable hands.

    I just don't think it would hurt your business to educate a little more by pointing out the potential for "hurting trees." You might even gain customers if you showed some compassion for the environment.

    No need to feel defensive. Good luck selling things.

    HFG
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  7. #17
    Senior Member MDSH's Avatar
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    Tree straps don't weigh that much, frankly.

    I'm recuperating at home after surgery and on crutches yet with one leg can get the hammock up in minutes using tree straps.

    A thin cord around a tree looks bad and feels bad.

    In a true survival situation, of course, you do what you have to do. I believe in preparedness (Luke 22:35-36). But for fun we have a different obligation, I think.


    Mike

  8. #18
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDSH View Post
    Tree straps don't weigh that much, frankly.

    I'm recuperating at home after surgery and on crutches yet with one leg can get the hammock up in minutes using tree straps.

    Mike
    We need a video on this. You can compete in the Hammock Special Olympics!

  9. #19
    Bubba's Avatar
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    Welcome. I can understand how you can be defensive but we are passionate about using hammocks and the outdoors and want to preserve both. Maybe you know what you are doing or are fine with it but I think you should at least mention the need to understand the possible dangers. Anyone can buy them and use them and maybe on a tree that can't take it. It might take years to see the damage but that time is short considering the potential lifespan of some trees. You're right that guns don't kill people, people kill people so it follows that amsteel doesn't kill trees, the person kills the tree. It's not ignorance, if its true.
    Last edited by Bubba; 09-25-2012 at 14:19.
    Don't let life get in the way of living.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by hppyfngy View Post
    I think the issue some have with your approach is that you take no responsibility for potential damage that Amsteel cordage certainly can do to trees, in less than knowledgeable hands.HFG
    i have plenty of compassion for the environment, proven not only by the number of days that i spend outdoors per year, but also by the numerous donations that i make each year toward fish, wildlife and parks and rec.

    it is not my responsilbility to weed out those with no common sense, if someone wants to use amsteel as suspension for their hammocks that is their option, and you should trust that they are capable of making an edjucated decision based on the information that is widely available concerning both sides of the argument...or do you believe that all silverware manufacturers should be resposible for including obesity warnings when selling thier forks?

    ill tell you what, if every hammocker worldwide started using piano wire for suspension the damage created would pale in comparison to the torture that our trees suffer every day from idots "playing" outside...

    i guess in short, what im trying to say is: let the noobs try things out, have a little faith in the common sense of us hammockers and our ability to make our own decisions, if i can hang for over 10 years without hurting the trees so can you...

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