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  1. #1
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    Super Shelter vs Fjallraven pad

    Hi!

    I just got the Super Shelter and am starting to question the point of it all. It is quite complex, thus making setup more time consuming unless everything is packed as a big bundle. Add to this the bulk of the under pad and any extra pads, quickly building up along with the weight.

    Without the extra torso- and kidney pads I found it questionable to go down to +5 C with the setup (based on a short pilot experiment in the field, admittedly without the space blanket). The undercover is not snug enough to keep insulation of low to medium thickness in contact with the hammock. The underpad works better if the side tie-outs are unfastened. Yet, it is not snug enough to work when a slight wind is present.

    On the other hand, I have slept nicely in both the Clark and the Hennessy using a Fjallraven "groundsheet" (it is actually a high-end, 14 mm thick CCF pad, www.fjallraven.com) inside the hammocks. It is very insulating, and it is flexible ("moldable") so that it does not wrinkle. In fact, my oppinion is that it adds to the comfort by cushioning some of the "hard spots" of the tensioned hammock bottom fabric (sounds silly, doesn't it?).

    It is 60 cm wide and therefore keeps your sides insulated. The weight less than 500 g. I have tested it down to approx. 0 C in the Clark with good results, using a -5 C sleeping bag (slight benefit from the Clarks insulating pockets, but not much).

    Extra clothing, the space blanket and the coat can still be added beneath the pad with pretty good results - I have tried this during much too chilly nights when I used a 4 mm CCF pad.

    All this makes me wonder if there is any point in using the SS instead of the simpler and more robust Fjallraven pad. What do you think?
    Last edited by Swedish trees; 11-09-2008 at 05:48.

  2. #2
    Senior Member moski's Avatar
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    Hi and welcome Swedish trees !
    Always nice with a fellow country man,
    especially when they are from right town as well

    Just a quick note.
    I have used pads and only pads for some years.
    Recently i switched to a 1/2 Down UQ and I'm really comfortable
    with that.

    So i think that's the way to go

  3. #3
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    Hi Moski,

    Which quilt is that?

  4. #4
    Senior Member moski's Avatar
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    preachers 1/2 UQ post 74

    It worked great with Clark NA , with some modding.
    It also worked great with the Claytor with some modding.

    Then i bought the Blackbird and got some prob.

    But with some help from warbonnetguy,
    i modded that UQ with his idea´s (post 74, again ) and now it works lika dream.

    Tested last night in fact, at Runsa, Upplands Väsby.

    Ps , where do you live?
    Me, ended up in Haninge, been living here for 2-3 years.

  5. #5

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    Ss - Sb = :( Ss + Sb = :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Swedish trees View Post
    I found it questionable to go down to +5 C with the setup (based on a short pilot experiment in the field, admittedly without the space blanket). The undercover is not snug enough to keep insulation of low to medium thickness in contact with the hammock. The underpad works better if the side tie-outs are unfastened. Yet, it is not snug enough to work when a slight wind is present.
    If you do a little searching in this forum on the SS you will find a consistent message that the supershelter is useless without a space blanket, especially in windy conditions.

    The undercover is not designed to keep insulation in contact with the hammock, that is why Hennessy says it cannot be used with a foam pad. That is what the underpad elastics are for.

    I'm curious as to how you found that the underpad works better with the side tie-outs unfastened? And by side tie-outs, do you mean the ones on the underpad or the hammock itself?

    The main disadvantage I can see with the Fjall Raven ground sheet, is that it has all the downsides of any narrow pad: your shoulders will get cold. It'd have to be used with an SPE at low temps. I've tried using a Thermarest Prolite-4 Long (its 25" wide, 1.5" wider than your Fjall Raven), and my shoulders got cold.

    I'd advise trying your SS with a space blanket before you make up your mind. I've used mine down to -5C and been toasty.

    --Kurt

  6. #6
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    Thanks Kurt. I will give the SS a try next weekend - with the space blanket - and evaluate from there since I have it. I am thinking of wrapping the underpad in a space blanket, taping it to form a closed unit. Should reduce the wear-and-tear and also make setup simpler.

    At -5 C, did you use only the under pad or under pad+torso and kidney pad? And for the coat and extra insulation, where would you recommend me to put it?

    About the tie-outs: I found that the side of the underpad next to the underpad tie-out would not come into contact with the hammock fabric, especially under my left shoulder. The underpad came up in a much nicer fashion under my body once I released its tie-out fastening. However, I still kept the hammock tie-out anchored. There have been other reports of this... could depend on the shape of the body resting in the hammock. I am not that wide over the shoulders, which can also explain why the 60 cm wide pad is sufficient for my purposes.



    Moski: will check on that. And I live in Bagarmossen since some 8 years. Sodertorn is a nice area for short outings, on foot and on bike.

  7. #7
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swedish trees View Post
    Thanks Kurt. I will give the SS a try next weekend - with the space blanket - and evaluate from there since I have it. I am thinking of wrapping the underpad in a space blanket, taping it to form a closed unit. Should reduce the wear-and-tear and also make setup simpler.

    At -5 C, did you use only the under pad or under pad+torso and kidney pad? And for the coat and extra insulation, where would you recommend me to put it?

    About the tie-outs: I found that the side of the underpad next to the underpad tie-out would not come into contact with the hammock fabric, especially under my left shoulder. The underpad came up in a much nicer fashion under my body once I released its tie-out fastening. However, I still kept the hammock tie-out anchored. There have been other reports of this... could depend on the shape of the body resting in the hammock. I am not that wide over the shoulders, which can also explain why the 60 cm wide pad is sufficient for my purposes.



    Moski: will check on that. And I live in Bagarmossen since some 8 years. Sodertorn is a nice area for short outings, on foot and on bike.
    I'm not sure there is any reason why you can't use the pad without the tie out, as long as the pad is remaining centered under your body, and covering your left shoulder, once you are in. And if it is not, you can just reach out of the hammock slit ( CAREFULLY! FRAGILE PAD!) after you are in and move it to the left. Also, your plan to wrap it in the SB would probably work OK ( if not using side tie outs), and provide some extra protection for the fragile pad.

    If you have some one to help you, have them observe that, after you ( or another adult with you doing the observing) are in the hammock, the elastics are adjusted so there is no gap. It should just be nice and snug against your body, though at the same time not super snug and compressing. I think the risk of too loose is greater than the opposite.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swedish trees View Post
    I am thinking of wrapping the underpad in a space blanket, taping it to form a closed unit. Should reduce the wear-and-tear and also make setup simpler.

    At -5 C, did you use only the under pad or under pad+torso and kidney pad? And for the coat and extra insulation, where would you recommend me to put it?
    Taping the SB to the UP should be an interesting experiment -- it would be nice to be able to eliminate that extra step of getting the SB fully unfolded on top of the UP.

    I don't have a torso nor kidney pad. Most of my low-temp stuff has been with just the UP+SB. I am playing a bit with the Exped Multimat underneath the UP, but results are still preliminary.

    I am doing a trial tonight of putting my PrimaLoft parka underneath the pad. Its supposed to get down to 18F (-8 C), which should be a reasonable test. I'll post my results in the next day or two.

    I'll be curious to hear how your taping experiment turns out. You are attaching one fragile piece to another... Are you using a double SB where it wraps all the way around the pad? That's one thing I haven't tried yet. I would think that tape is not going to stick to the OCF pad, and having a SB large enough where you are taping the SB to itself might be the only way this could work.

    --Kurt

  9. #9
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwpapke View Post
    Taping the SB to the UP should be an interesting experiment -- it would be nice to be able to eliminate that extra step of getting the SB fully unfolded on top of the UP.

    I don't have a torso nor kidney pad. Most of my low-temp stuff has been with just the UP+SB. I am playing a bit with the Exped Multimat underneath the UP, but results are still preliminary.

    I am doing a trial tonight of putting my PrimaLoft parka underneath the pad. Its supposed to get down to 18F (-8 C), which should be a reasonable test. I'll post my results in the next day or two.

    I'll be curious to hear how your taping experiment turns out. You are attaching one fragile piece to another... Are you using a double SB where it wraps all the way around the pad? That's one thing I haven't tried yet. I would think that tape is not going to stick to the OCF pad, and having a SB large enough where you are taping the SB to itself might be the only way this could work.

    --Kurt
    That should be a great experiment. Hopefully, you will be able to adjust the UC suspension so that the weight of the parka does not cause the UC to sag excessively, causing a gap. Though you won't necessarily need an adjustment, depending on the weight of your parka, oz per square inch. ( This is also where the almost weightless - per sq.in.- Garlington insulator comes in really handy) Also, some sort of cord attached from the hammock head end or suspension to the Parka might prove useful, keeping the parka from sliding all the way down to the butt end. But even if it does slide, that is also the area where you need the most extra insulation anyway. Looking forward to your test results!

    I'll be curious to hear how your taping experiment turns out. You are attaching one fragile piece to another... Are you using a double SB where it wraps all the way around the pad? That's one thing I haven't tried yet. I would think that tape is not going to stick to the OCF pad, and having a SB large enough where you are taping the SB to itself might be the only way this could work.
    Wouldn't a regular WM SB or a HeatSheet be big enough to pretty much wrap around the OCF pad? My SBs have proved pretty durable, unlike my pads. The only time my WM SB tended to rear up on me was when i attempted to cut it to the shape of the pad. Trying to copy what someone here did, who then sewed it to their pad. But unfortunately, the eges of the WM SB became very fragile and easily torn after I cut it to shape.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-09-2008 at 21:14.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  10. #10
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    yes this sounds cool.

    don't know what kind of tape your using, but the c3 tape would probably work for sure, i've attached ripstop to ccf with great success so far. i went around the perimeter and then an x across from the corners. i think i tried it with some ocf too.

    hey billybob, where can you get heat sheets at?

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