Super Shelter vs Fjallraven pad

[BillyBob58]

yes this sounds cool.

don't know what kind of tape your using, but the c3 tape would probably work for sure, i've attached ripstop to ccf with great success so far. i went around the perimeter and then an x across from the corners. i think i tried it with some ocf too.

hey billybob, where can you get heat sheets at?

Got mine at REI. Made by Adventure Medical? Or something like that?

[kwpapke]

...snip... Looking forward to your test results!

Wouldn't a regular WM SB or a HeatSheet be big enough to pretty much wrap around the OCF pad? My SBs have proved pretty durable, unlike my pads.

My 1-person heatsheet is not big enough to wrap around the SS OCF pad at the shoulders where the pad is widest. Yes, mine has been durable too. I've used the same pad all season, and it has yet to develop a tear or hole. Once you start taping it though, it could have quite a bit of stress applied to it.

Test results from last night: it only made it down to 19F with a dew point of 15F with light winds in the 5-8mph range. The parka performed well: my back never got cold, though my feet did (extra pair of socks next time...). I did not do anything to hold it in place, but it stayed pretty much where I wanted it. The Overcover performed remarkably well: fully zipped into my mummy bag it was 32F inside the hammock. There was a little condensation on the OC in the morning, but most of the condensate was frozen on the underside of the tarp.

Clothing worn: PowerDry LJ tops & bottoms, 200 wt fleece pullover, lightweight snowshoeing pants, no hat nor gloves

Between the PrimaLoft parka + SS + SB below, and the OC on top, I thought staying warm at 19F in a mummy bag rated for 30F is pretty darn good.

--Kurt

[BillyBob58]

My 1-person heatsheet is not big enough to wrap around the SS OCF pad at the shoulders where the pad is widest. Yes, mine has been durable too. I've used the same pad all season, and it has yet to develop a tear or hole. Once you start taping it though, it could have quite a bit of stress applied to it.

Test results from last night: it only made it down to 19F with a dew point of 15F with light winds in the 5-8mph range. The parka performed well: my back never got cold, though my feet did (extra pair of socks next time...). I did not do anything to hold it in place, but it stayed pretty much where I wanted it. The Overcover performed remarkably well: fully zipped into my mummy bag it was 32F inside the hammock. There was a little condensation on the OC in the morning, but most of the condensate was frozen on the underside of the tarp.

Clothing worn: PowerDry LJ tops & bottoms, 200 wt fleece pullover, lightweight snowshoeing pants, no hat nor gloves

Between the PrimaLoft parka + SS + SB below, and the OC on top, I thought staying warm at 19F in a mummy bag rated for 30F is pretty darn good.

--Kurt

OK, I had never actually tried the heatsheet or wm sb to see if either would wrap around, it just seemed like they would, and I had considered trying that over the years(but never got around to it). I had a theory that- considering I had the full width sb with me any way, putting part of it under the pad would increase warmth by giving a little additional wind block to the pad, plus adding an additional small somewhat dead air space.

Alright Kurt! Good testing! Great report on the parka addition! So apparently it stayed up under your back as well as your kidney area and butt? I think 19*F is great for just the small weight and cost of the SS plus warm weather gear you might have with you anyway ( and considering the extra wind and rain protection that you get for the same weight/price). Of course, if you need your parka as part of your sleeping system, that approach would not work. But I usually have at least some warm clothing with me that I am not planning on wearing inside my bag.

I also think 19*F in a 30*F bag is fantastic. Considering that, with the addition of the slight weight and cost of the OC, I suspect you also ( once again) pick up at least a bit of additional wind and rain/condensation/wind blown snow resistance. I am really going to have to get me one them thar overcovers!

Got to do something about those feet, though! I wonder if the heat loss was more from the bottom of the top? If from the bottom, maybe just throwing in a CCF sit pad under the feet? Again, something you likely have with you anyway.

I am really glad to see quite a few folks now, besides just me and maybe one or two others, who have confirmed that the SS is a good alternative system. I was pretty lonesome here for a long time! I haven't been using my SS much since last year. Due to having become really pleased with first the PeaPod and then the WB UQ, and I have spent most of my time playing with them. And they are indeed both great, as I am sure the JRB UQs are also ( just no personal experience YET).

But IMO, the SS certainly has it's place, with it's own set of pros and cons, and I am enjoying seeing a larger number of folks reporting on successful use of it. I suspect that number will continue to increase.

So, apparently, your parka's weight was not enough to cause your UC to gap down and lose contact with your back? Great to hear. Did you have it zipped up full thickness, or unzipped and opened up wide, covering a larger area? Have you tried anything lightweight on top of the pad? Have you considered a Garlington insulator?

Keep up the experiments and reports.

[kwpapke]

I had a theory that- considering I had the full width sb with me any way, putting part of it under the pad would increase warmth by giving a little additional wind block to the pad, plus adding an additional small somewhat dead air space.
...
parka addition! So apparently it stayed up under your back as well as your kidney area and butt?
...
So, apparently, your parka's weight was not enough to cause your UC to gap down and lose contact with your back? Great to hear. Did you have it zipped up full thickness, or unzipped and opened up wide, covering a larger area? Have you tried anything lightweight on top of the pad? Have you considered a Garlington insulator?

I always tuck the excess SB under the UP as much as possible for exactly the reasons you give above. Every little bit helps, and it keeps the SB nice and neat and keeps it from flapping in the breeze.
The parka stayed reasonably well under the butt/kidney area. The UC may have gapped down a bit, but I have the UP elastic'd up tight enough that the UC is not necessary to keep it snug. I don't know how big (if any) the gap was between the parka and the UP.
The parka was unzipped, open wide and upside-down, i.e. the hood was down by my feet, and the bottom was under my shoulders. The intent was to get the full width of the parka bottom across my shoulder blades.
No, I haven't tried anything lightweight on top of the pad, but I intend to try the Exped Multimat that way.
You've suggested the Garlington a couple of times. I seem to have a Mental Block on that one -- I have a tough time banking on being able to gather up enough dry leaves, etc. I am really targeting Winter camping in Minnesota, and I can't convince myself that I'll be able to dig under a foot of snow to find dry leaves. There are plenty of leaves on the Superior Trail where I do most of my Fall hiking, but in Fall the SS+SB is perfectly adequate, no other insulation required.

--Kurt

[BillyBob58]

....................
You've suggested the Garlington a couple of times. I seem to have a Mental Block on that one -- I have a tough time banking on being able to gather up enough dry leaves, etc. I am really targeting Winter camping in Minnesota, and I can't convince myself that I'll be able to dig under a foot of snow to find dry leaves. There are plenty of leaves on the Superior Trail where I do most of my Fall hiking, but in Fall the SS+SB is perfectly adequate, no other insulation required.

--Kurt

Oh, no dry leaves, though that might be an idea under certain circumstances. Though I think if you used DRY leaves, you would not even need the Garlington insulator, you could probably just use the undercover, filled up with the leaves. But I have not yet ever fooled with dry leaves, though it might be a great idea if available.

What I am referring to is a garbage bag, either small or large, depending on the area you want to cover, with a crinkled up space blanket ( or newspaper if at home or something else if at home) inside, then with the end of the garbage bag sealed off enough to trap some air. The space blanket will serve to at least somewhat make the trapped air "dead".

Then you can have an additional 1 to 4" of loft. For a few bucks and a few ounces. It for sure won't work as good as a bag of down, but then it also won't cost anything and weighs very little and is impervious to water and does a pretty good job. Having tried one a couple of times in the teens 2 winters ago, I can attest that it was a pretty good boost. It's main advantage in the SS is that, compared to it's weight relative to the square inches covered, just the weight of a trash bag and SB spread out over almost a square yard or so, it is almost weightless. So, it will cause zero sag in the UC, in fact, the normal UC tension will hold it nice and snug up against the pad.

Just one more tool in the arsenal. Particularly useful if you need to wear your parka in the hammock, or for whatever reason a person might not have enough spare warm clothes to go down into the UC. When I used one, I had a GI down in the foot end ( lower back to feet) of the UC, and my 9 oz down vest in the upper part, from lower back to shoulders. But I don't see any reason why I couldn't have used 2 GIs to cover top to bottom, or just one large one. Probably not as good as some higher tech approaches, but the clear advantages are: works a lot better than nothing, wind and waterproof, dirt cheap and weighs almost nothing.

[Chris.Biomed]

Hi!

I just got the Super Shelter and am starting to question the point of it all. It is quite complex, thus making setup more time consuming unless everything is packed as a big bundle. Add to this the bulk of the under pad and any extra pads, quickly building up along with the weight.

Without the extra torso- and kidney pads I found it questionable to go down to +5 C with the setup (based on a short pilot experiment in the field, admittedly without the space blanket). The undercover is not snug enough to keep insulation of low to medium thickness in contact with the hammock. The underpad works better if the side tie-outs are unfastened. Yet, it is not snug enough to work when a slight wind is present.

On the other hand, I have slept nicely in both the Clark and the Hennessy using a Fjallraven "groundsheet" (it is actually a high-end, 14 mm thick CCF pad, www.fjallraven.com) inside the hammocks. It is very insulating, and it is flexible ("moldable") so that it does not wrinkle. In fact, my oppinion is that it adds to the comfort by cushioning some of the "hard spots" of the tensioned hammock bottom fabric (sounds silly, doesn't it?).

It is 60 cm wide and therefore keeps your sides insulated. The weight less than 500 g. I have tested it down to approx. 0 C in the Clark with good results, using a -5 C sleeping bag (slight benefit from the Clarks insulating pockets, but not much).

Extra clothing, the space blanket and the coat can still be added beneath the pad with pretty good results - I have tried this during much too chilly nights when I used a 4 mm CCF pad.

All this makes me wonder if there is any point in using the SS instead of the simpler and more robust Fjallraven pad. What do you think?

More and more Swedes! It's simply great!

Let the rest of us know how it all works out... and post a hello on this thread.

[Javaman]

FWIW, this past weekend went to a windy 39 F but forgot my space blanket. Remembering this (and other) threads, I layed my REI lightweight rain jacket, opened with collar at my feet, at the foot end of the UC. Made the mistake of putting it on top of the UP. I added a pack towel and North Face fleece top under my butt and my Mountain Hardware fleece (with windstopper) under my torso. All these also on top of the UP instead of below.

I think the items on top of the UP opened a gap between the hammock and the UP. I think the UC did an admirable job of keeping things up near the bottom of the hammock.

Wearing lightweight Patagonia polypro long underwear and a wool/poly blend hat, I stayed warm and comfortable in my 15 F rated Sierra Designs 800 fill down bag. My face did get cold at about 4:00 am - maybe the OC would help this.

There was no movement of any of the additional clothing items.

Based on this thread, I plan on packing a GI as "emergency" backup. Will stash it in a side pocket "just in case" given the very little weight involved. Gotta have a backup!

I'm sticking with the HH SS - it works well for me.

[BillyBob58]

FWIW, this past weekend went to a windy 39 F but forgot my space blanket. Remembering this (and other) threads, I layed my REI lightweight rain jacket, opened with collar at my feet, at the foot end of the UC. Made the mistake of putting it on top of the UP. I added a pack towel and North Face fleece top under my butt and my Mountain Hardware fleece (with windstopper) under my torso. All these also on top of the UP instead of below.

I think the items on top of the UP opened a gap between the hammock and the UP. I think the UC did an admirable job of keeping things up near the bottom of the hammock.

Wearing lightweight Patagonia polypro long underwear and a wool/poly blend hat, I stayed warm and comfortable in my 15 F rated Sierra Designs 800 fill down bag. My face did get cold at about 4:00 am - maybe the OC would help this.

There was no movement of any of the additional clothing items.

Based on this thread, I plan on packing a GI as "emergency" backup. Will stash it in a side pocket "just in case" given the very little weight involved. Gotta have a backup!

I'm sticking with the HH SS - it works well for me.

Another great report. The data just keeps increasing. We don't see a lot of info on adding insulation on top of the OCF pad. Even though adding light items is recommended by HH, on top of the pad.

Though you feel the items were to heavy for the pad and caused a gap, apparently you still were warm and comfortable. Which makes me wonder if there was much of a gap.

Your experience makes me want to experiment more with items on top of the UP instead of so much down in the UC. I've done a little of that, but most stuff has gone down in the UC. Of course, the suspension can be tightened to help make up for gaps in both the UC and pad. But even so, with items on top of the pad, I need to make sure they are not heavy enough to compress the OCF pad, partially defeating the purpose. One thing I wish I had more of was another adult willing to mess around with this stuff. ( My wife is having none of it, I don't know what is wrong with her) It would help to be able to see what is actually going on down in the UC and UP once an adult is in the hammock, various items are added and, if needed, suspensions adjusted. One thing that always appears to work great on my pad is my 9 oz down vest. It also works prety good under the pad.

[warbonnetguy]

One thing I wish I had more of was another adult willing to mess around with this stuff. ( My wife is having none of it, I don't know what is wrong with her)

i feel you there buddy, that comment made me laugh pretty hard. i can relate. i mean how much less difficult could a favor be?

[Javaman]

All my items added on top of the UP were light weight, which I think made it work out fine. I was never cold that night, but I kept waking up thinking I MIGHT be cold. I would take a mental inventory of my perceived coldness, fine none, then go back to sleep. Then I'd wake up an hour later and conduct the same mental gyrations! And on it goes . . . .