Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Milton, PA
    Hammock
    Hennessey Explorer Ultralight
    Tarp
    Hennessey Hex
    Insulation
    HH Super Shelter
    Suspension
    ring buckle
    Posts
    7,822
    Images
    101

    Failed Vintage Hammock

    I sewed the combination Garment/Hammock project and discovered, as I suspected, the design and concept seem hopelessly flawed. Is any one surprised? I was just out in the back attempting to test it so I have not assembled my full report yet. I was all set to do a video of myself stripping down to long red woolies (with the flap in the back) and setting this up (silent movie/keystone cops style) but I see no point in that at the moment. Better to save you all the trauma.

    I started this thread to leave the official discussion thread focused on the successful attempts. But I will submit the pics of the project over on the submission thread before the 10th and I'll post my full report over here when I have it assembled.

    Meanwhile, if anyone else tried an unsuccessful design from a vintage patent feel free to add to the failures. Right now I am all alone.... (boo hoo hoo)
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

    We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series

    Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies

    Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint

  2. #2
    Senior Member Iafte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Williamstown, NJ
    Hammock
    DIY Wbbb Clone
    Tarp
    12x10 Cat cut DIY
    Suspension
    Ring Buckles
    Posts
    1,192
    Images
    59
    No you are not. I went through 2 different patients and 2 falls before I settled on the one I hope to get to work... Heading up to sew now.
    Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright

  3. #3
    Dutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Reinholds, PA
    Hammock
    Bridgeskin
    Tarp
    DIY Blackcat
    Insulation
    DIY Quilts
    Suspension
    Whoopie sling
    Posts
    6,731
    Images
    198
    I knew Iafte was attempting this same patent, and I thought to myself that it seem impossible, but if he pulled it off, wow. I don't know if he is still doing the same one or another since I haven't spoken to him since MAHHA. In any case just attempting it is a feat in itself. Congrads, Besides it was all for fun anyhow.
    Peace Dutch
    GA>ME 2003


    http://dutchwaregear.com
    Visit Dutchwaregear on facebook (and like it)
    Check us out on Twitter @dutchwaregear

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Milton, PA
    Hammock
    Hennessey Explorer Ultralight
    Tarp
    Hennessey Hex
    Insulation
    HH Super Shelter
    Suspension
    ring buckle
    Posts
    7,822
    Images
    101
    I have decided to do a serious analysis of the failure of this design and concept for a couple of reasons. First, the patent office accepted the application seriously enough to grant the patent. So I think it behooves us to grant it the same respect. Second, Mr Conley received a patent in 1900 which precedes this patent. The earlier patent is for a knapsack, hammock, garment combination. The multiole use of gear is rather obviously of great interest to Mr. Conley as it is to many people today. It would be too easy to laugh this off as silly and miss insights and knowledge learned from this project. The current patent for the combination garment and hammock was cited as previous art in a later patent of 2004 (#6698029). What follows is an attempt to discern the problems inherent in the concept and design as well as any potential materials or workmanship contributions to failure.



    Concept flaws:

    The single biggest concept flaw in this design is the transverse joining of the jacket and trousers that is placed roughly midway in the body of the hammock. The "quants" of hammockforums.net have done the mathematical gymnastics to establish the stresses experienced by a transverse seam in a hammock body. They have labeled such a seam as extremely problematic and a major design flaw particularly when it is located in the mid section of the bed. Transverse channels serving to gather the ends of a hammock are not at all problematic and are very common in commercial hammocks readily available. But the center transverse join is usbject to the most stress under load and is situated in such a way as to be identified as a major cite for structural failure.

    If a seam, being solidly constructed and secure over its entire length is subject to expected failure surely a segmented join of two distict pieces is an expected failure beyond doubt. The forces and stress placed upon that join were either not fully understood in 1900 or were not given appropriate attention in the concept put forward in this patent. A cursory glance at the later patent which references this patent shows solid reinforcements places at the transverse joins in the hammock body. Clearly, it is not lacking in respect to note the fatal flaw which exists in the concept presented by Mr. Conley.

    Design flaws:

    Whoever did the drawing accompanying the application shows some very naive understanding of hammock design and usage. The stakes holding the support ropes a drawn at an angle which would invite catastrophic failure of the system.





    Note the angle of the stake leaning toward the support pole. The support rope will either slip off the stake or cause the stake to uproot from the ground as the hammmock is loaded.

    The support poles themselves are described in the text as an "X" type of arrnagement. This system has been proven useful and effective by members of the forum. The concept is sound but the stakes must be angled steeply away from the support poles to be able to withstand the forces applied.

    The design of the hanging system itself is equally naive. The hanging suspension ropes are looped through a simple strap loop and taken back to the support pole. The drawings suggest the expectation the hammock will remain spread open rather than collapsing on itself as the ropes have no spreader bars to keep them separated.

    Additionally the loops focus the force of the load onto one single point on the hammock body rather than spreading the load force over a wide large area of fabric as a gathered end tends to do. Alternatively the very least that is needed for the suspesnsion system to work as assumed are spreader bars to take the load. In essence, this susension design is more appropriate to a bridge design than the system submitted in the documentation.

    Having established the transverse join and the suspension system as fatal flaws in the construction and function of the hammock, I turn now to the dual use of the design of the proposed garment. The drawing of the trouser waist is fundamentally incompatible with the human body. The wide flaps of the upper trouser leg is totally impractical and improper for trousers to fit. The width and flaps are specifically called for in the text of the application.

    The piece of fabric B is slightly wider at its waist end to provide, flaps B', and below the 55 flaps there may be secured strips or bands b', having on one side hooks c and on the other side eyes c', and the lower edge has connected thereto loops d d.


    Note the actual cut and contours of a pants pattern.



    Even if the concept and suspension design were substantially workable The design of the garment is fatally flawed.

    Experienced failures.

    As expected the loop attachments for the suspension ropes did not withstand the force. These loops were at least 4 layers of fabric thick with added reinforcement material in the center of the loop. In actuality they were the belt loops from the twill trousers I used to construct the project.

    On the foot end the loop stitching tore through the fabric.



    On the head end, the loop itself actually tore apart.



    I attmepted to restring the hammock using a larkshead knot on the ends resulting in the failure of the join fasteners.



    In the first instance the button shank broke leaving the stitching intact. In the second, the stitching was actually pulled through a reinforced waistband of the trousers. In neither case did I have anywhere near full weight on the hammock.

    It might be possible to find fabric which would withstand the stress of the forces at work. However, in the world of cottom canvas and other natural fabrics the thickness and stiffness of the fabric would result in unusable garments.

    Summary

    There are examples of dual use gear that prove effective and practical. One outstanding example is a gearskin pack which is usable as a bridge hammock. This project is not adaptable. It is hard to conceive of any attempt at dual hammock clothing of this style that would be practical, if for no other reason than one needs to be disrobed before cone can set this up. While this may be possible for the solitary hunter in the deep woods, it is not particularly practical in a group setting.

    This project has confirmed in practical experience the failure of transverse joins in a hammock body. It has confirmed the stresses on a suspension system.

    As has been pointed out. This competition was all in fun anyway. At that level this project succeeded admirably. I trust as you have followed this failure analysis you have gleaned some of my enjoyment in doing this work. I am thankful to the member who posted this patent on another thread and to the forum as a whole for sponsoring this competition.

    With respect,
    ramblinrev
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

    We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series

    Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies

    Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint

  5. #5
    Senior Member GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Illinois
    Hammock
    DIY Bridge, v0.n, where n is large
    Tarp
    depends on season
    Insulation
    DIY UQ
    Posts
    4,657
    Images
    564
    RamblinRev---thanks for having a go at this and reporting the results. It is all about the fun of it, after all.

    I think the same guy who drew up the diagrams for your patent did the one for Potter, with respect to the picture of the stakes. In addition to this the Potter hammock diagram is physically very very difficult to replicate, if not unrealizable altogether, and I found I had to add a length of cord between a pair of legs at one end in order to have a ghost of a chance of keeping the four legs vertical under load.

    Grizz

  6. #6
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Hammock
    Warbonnet ON!
    Tarp
    SuperFly or MacCat
    Insulation
    Yetis & Mambas
    Suspension
    Webbing and rings
    Posts
    13,919
    Images
    136
    ramblinrev- failure fascinates me.

    You said you were using a pair of "twill" pants, but the patent clearly calls for a canvas material for the "union garment" (does that mean it has to be blue? ). While I agree, canvas is not typically a comfortable material for clothing it should be kept in mind that layers were the key then as now. From what I was able to pick-up from the narrative in the patent, this was a garment meant for 'work duties' (guessing railroad construction and the like) which instantly made me think of the Carhart coveralls that I wore during my construction laborer years.

    Now, those things are just about as unflattering as you'll find fit wise. They are very loose and I suspect (without taking them apart) that they are generally rectangular in shape; dang sure aren't an "athletic fit". But, they are tough as nails and I know from first hand experience that one can (maybe not "should") put a crane hook through one of the belt loops of an unsuspecting coworker and lift said coworker several feet off the ground JUST ON THE BELT LOOP. Said coworker is not compliant and is flipping around all over the place.

    Now, if it can hold the weight of a full grown man probably around 200 lbs (flipping about) by just a single belt loop, I believe the odds of supporting a sleeping hanger by making use of several loops, or snap-hooks, are fairly high.

    In addition, the insulated Carharts would be a good inspiration for making the hammock somewhat insulated. I would think one could make the liner of the garment slightly larger than the shell and attach the insulation to only the liner. Hopefully, due to the larger size of the hammock bottom fabric and the almost nil stretch of the shell material, it would avoid just enough compression to get the job done.

    I'm just thinking out loud and certainly not critiquing your attempt at making something over a hundred years old; it was just the reference to a working garment in the patent that made me think of the Carharts. I think there is hope for this thing. Just as a side note, Carharts was founded in 1889. I wonder if maybe they were this guy's original inspiration?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Milton, PA
    Hammock
    Hennessey Explorer Ultralight
    Tarp
    Hennessey Hex
    Insulation
    HH Super Shelter
    Suspension
    ring buckle
    Posts
    7,822
    Images
    101
    I am very familiar with carharts having worn numerous pair in my life. The twill pants are of roughly the same weight as typical canvas used for garments. Or so says my wife the garment wizard. These were typical of the heavy duty dickies brands. (not the wally world lightweights.) I can assure you the carhart pants are more similar to the pattern piece posted than the drawing on the patent. This shape and generic pattern for pants has been around since pants were developed.

    I used all four/three loops for hanging. Those belt loops are bomb proof in construction.

    You are correct in your statement the text calls for canvas but in reality the canvas and twill are very closely related fabrics. The hanging of a man from a single belt loop is an interesting analogy. I strongly suspect if we released the mathletes we would be back into the angle of hang having to do with the level of stress exerted on the fabric. Veritcal hangs are always of lesser force exerted than diagonals. The almost horizontal place ment of the suspension ropes increases the force exerted by a massive factor according to the quants.

    One of the difficulties I had is I had about zero budget to dedicate to this project. Canvas of the sort I would have needed to replicate the garment would have been easily in the $10/yard category around here. I would need three yards which is $30 minimum plus trying to find it in time. hehehe. Flamingo is gracious but she was unwilling to let me spend our Christmas budget on a frivolous whim.

    Just for the record.... Flamingo is a costumer by training and is extremely well versed in historical fabric and design. Not to be defensive here.. but she gave me the go ahead for coming as close as likely possible under the circumstances. Please understand I have taken no offense to your remarks. The same thoughts went through my mind as I decided to do this and especially decided to make a serious failure analysis. I checked these ideas out with her before putting my name behind them.

    I would be more than willing to profess hope for a design using Carhart one piece coveralls. But as far as the two pieces held together in the middle of the hammock body... I have real problems with that.

    Please note that I am also fascinated by failure. The patent which references this one adds significant rigid reinforcement to the pants as well as a a criss crossing bracing of the fabric. That additionally leads me to believe that I have correctly identified major flaws in design and concept. That does not say that there is no hope in making it work. Simply that _this_ design probably would not.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

    We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series

    Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies

    Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint

  8. #8
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Hammock
    Warbonnet ON!
    Tarp
    SuperFly or MacCat
    Insulation
    Yetis & Mambas
    Suspension
    Webbing and rings
    Posts
    13,919
    Images
    136
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post
    Just for the record.... Flamingo is a costumer by training and is extremely well versed in historical fabric and design.
    Halloween has to be a fun time in your household! That's kind of cool.

    I'm not entirely sure why this design fascinates me. The hammock would be short, not very wide, really, really heavy, and probably "itchy". That said, I can't get it out of my head. Think I might head to some thrift shops and see if I can come up with some Carharts. I've been messing around with an overcover for my BlackBird without much success for the past couple of weeks, maybe it's time for some 'fun' gear building. Hope you'll be available for questions if I give it a go.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Milton, PA
    Hammock
    Hennessey Explorer Ultralight
    Tarp
    Hennessey Hex
    Insulation
    HH Super Shelter
    Suspension
    ring buckle
    Posts
    7,822
    Images
    101
    Ask away.... It'll be fun.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

    We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series

    Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies

    Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint

Similar Threads

  1. I tried making a hammock out of an old parachute and... failed
    By kender in forum Do-It-Yourself (DIY)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-03-2014, 14:26
  2. First hammock, first hang - FAILED!
    By TacoStyle in forum Trip Reports
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 05-24-2012, 20:47

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •