Clothing to sleep in: is less more or is more more?

[Detail Man]

VB clothing is pretty new to me. I've heard about it from reading Andrew Skurka's site, and just finished reading about VBs at RBH Design's site. VBs make sense to me and I can recall a few times outside in the winter when I may have accidently stayed warmer with a less breathable shirt on without realizing it. I have learned over the years to pay atention to how warm I am and whether I'm sweating and venting appropriately, but I've never carried it further with intentailly wearing VB clothing.

So you guys who use VBs, do you wear it 24/7 on a trip? Usually I put on a clean shirt and shorts at night to help keep my TQ (sleeping bag in tenting days) clean. I have always slept with my day clothes in my bag to avoid the chill of putting on cold clothing in the morning. From what I understand, my method would result in my clothes and insulation soaking up my insensible perspiration. Is it also why my feet get so cold in the morning, the sweat having frozen in my boots overnight chilling my socks that are moist from a night's sleep?

This is definitely something I want to explore. Are there any inexpensive DIY VB clothing ideas? Would plastic bags over sock liners work for feet?

[Acer]

One thing about the cold and sweat. Sweat eventually closes the pores of your skin and doesn't allow the body to properly breath. I find,,no matter what I wear, I have to at least wipe my sweaty areas, and feet down before going to bed to open the pores especially my feet,,or they are going to get and stay coldish no matter what I wear to bed in the cold. Don't know if this works for everybody, but does for me in keeping the pores open to breath and heat.

[OneThing]

So you guys who use VBs, do you wear it 24/7 on a trip?

This is definitely something I want to explore. Are there any inexpensive DIY VB clothing ideas? Would plastic bags over sock liners work for feet?

Several years ago I hiked over 5,000 miles which included the AT. 40°f and above with no wind, I would just wear a short sleeve shirt, and shorts. If I took a break, I would put on a wind breaker.

As the temps dropped and wind increased, I would put on my Gram Weenie Silnylon Rain / Vapor Barrier Pants & Stephenson's Warmlite VB Shirt. (The shirt has a full zipper which make it easy to vent.) If it got down to single digits temps or the teens, I would add plastic bags to under my socks, and my hands with mitts over them. I could wear them in the rain as well, as they're both fully waterproof.

The pants and the shirt together cost me less than $100 back at that time.

When I got to camp, I would get naked, and depending on the temps, either put on my mid layer pants & shirt, and at night, put back on the VB Pants & Shirt under my mid layer and go to bed.

That was my basic plan, however there's a lot of wiggle room in there as well depending on the weather, the terrain for that day, and what season. In the middle of July on the AT, I got hit by very cold rain, with wind for 3 hours. About half way into this storm, I got out my VB shirt. However, my core had dropped too far. By the time, I got to a shelter, I was in full Hypothermia.

As the saying goes, "It's always easier to stay warm, than to get warm"

[vampiresmiley]

I'm the "odd guy out", as I tend to carry clothes specifically to sleep in.

In cold weather, I'll wear a wicking base layer day and night.

As I get ready to sleep, I drop my trail outerwear, and throw on a pair of sweatpants, a clean/dry pair of wool socks I use only to sleep in, t-shirt, and my wool buff.

In the morning, a clean dry pair of trail socks, and usually the same outerwear from the day before go back on as the sweatpants/t-shirt/wool socks get put away.

I never sleep in my outermost layers...those are replaced by my sleeping bag/woobie when I sleep.

I prefer dedicated sleep clothes. In cool weather I always wear a wicking base layer - usually poly - and change from my daytime outerwear into a set of fleece top and bottoms and clean wool socks. In extremely cold weather where I need to control condensation, I will replace the fleece with a VB hooded sweatsuit (realsauna), and pair of warmlite VB socks under a pair of wool.

During the day, with the exception of socks to prevent frozen boots, I do not generally use a VB, but instead prefer very breathable layers for warmth and comfort.

Michael

[Jolly]

There are a lot of variables and opinions. You want something breathable with moisture transport. I like mid to heavy weight long johns depending on the temp/trip. Some folks wear their outer layers to bed but I was always taught it was bringing dirt and moisture to bed with you. Strip off outer layer and stow just before getting into cozy nest. ;-)

Now let's see what the others say... ;-)

Could not agree with this more.

I have a good friend who, due to his gram-weenie-ness, will sleep in his clothes to save on pack weight. Don't get me wrong, I think [smartly] shaving ounces is a good thing, but there's nothing better than slipping on a nice dry pair of heavyweight smartwool long johns and long sleeved base layer for sleeping. I will gladly carry that extra weight anywhere.

[tmckay2]

i usually go with some fairly loose long johns and some wool socks. never had any problems

[BillyBob58]

VB clothing is pretty new to me. I've heard about it from reading Andrew Skurka's site, and just finished reading about VBs at RBH Design's site. VBs make sense to me and I can recall a few times outside in the winter when I may have accidently stayed warmer with a less breathable shirt on without realizing it.

I have actually had somewhat of the opposite experience. During a NOLS course 25+ years ago, the instructors hated Goretex. ( 1st generation GTX remember ) So all of the raingear was old fashioned coated nylon, something called a Cagoule (SP?) and waterproof pants. I was using pile insulation that had always kept me warm with a GTX shell, but I found myself getting easily cold at not all that cold temps layering that rain gear over it. I blamed it on having a VB ( my non-breathable rain gear ) on the wrong side of my insulation. The coldest layer was my outside, non-breathable layer. You know some condensation was going on in my insulation, and at the very least there was a ton of humidity under my rain gear.

I have learned over the years to pay atention to how warm I am and whether I'm sweating and venting appropriately, but I've never carried it further with intentailly wearing VB clothing.

So you guys who use VBs, do you wear it 24/7 on a trip?

Some do that. But for me it has always been used more for sleeping or sitting around camp. But I have always felt it would have to be REALLY cold to hike in a VB. But then again, if it is plenty cold, and you are wearing nothing but the VB or at worst the least possible insulation, maybe. But no doubt a learning curve and some practice would be needed to avoid floating away in your own sweat. ( But as always remember: even if you screw up and don't vent and adjust layers adequately and sweat profusely, it won't feel good. It may even be scary to feel all of that moisture on your skin in cold weather. But, the moisture should stay next to your skin. It can not evaporate like a swamp cooler, and it can not get into your insulation and it can't wick towards the surface carrying your body heat with it. You will also be less likely to dehydrate. But venting and layering skills will need need to be maximized, only because it just don't feel right to be sloshing around in your warm sweat!

Usually I put on a clean shirt and shorts at night to help keep my TQ (sleeping bag in tenting days) clean. I have always slept with my day clothes in my bag to avoid the chill of putting on cold clothing in the morning. From what I understand, my method would result in my clothes and insulation soaking up my insensible perspiration.

Yes, any clothing between you and the VB is at risk for getting wet. But, if you are talking about VB clothing, no problem with clothing in your bag or for that matter sleeping in them. As long as they are OVER ( outside ) your VB. I guess even with a VB bag liner, you could still keep clothing inside the bag, bit outside the VB liner.

Is it also why my feet get so cold in the morning, the sweat having frozen in my boots overnight chilling my socks that are moist from a night's sleep?

No doubt, at least a factor! I have had my boots freeze into solid bricks. Of course, those boots can get wet either from the inside or outside, and a VB won't help any with the outside moisture, they are still going to freeze if wet from whatever source. A buddy of mine shivered all night in a damp down bag and clothing at about 15F. He said one thing that got him through the night was thinking about the last set of dry wool socks he had in reserve. When he got up, his boots were frozen solid. He put those nice dry socks on, forced his feet into his frozen boots. Within a few minutes, his boots thawed and soaked those socks! Luckily it was our last day, hiking out. Boy was he grumpy! ( this is the same buddy who I loaned my Patagonia VB socks to one day when his feet were freezing, while we were trying to fish in the snow- or ice fishing one week later. His feet quickly warmed up )

This is definitely something I want to explore. Are there any inexpensive DIY VB clothing ideas? Would plastic bags over sock liners work for feet?

Yes they would, and so would an altered garbage bag for your torso. Cut a head and arm holes, great for experimenting. Try a very thin base layer, the VBs, and a thin piece of insulation. Sit outside at temps that would call for thicker insulation than you are wearing. At temps 15 to 20F colder than you would normally be in with just that piece of insulation. That should give you an idea if it is going to work for you. And see if you sweat very much while using minimal insulation.

I think these clothes are a bargain. They don't look good enough to wear to town by themselves. My wife calls it my duct tape shirt. But I like it!
http://warmlite.com/vapor-barrier-clothing

The shirt is $25, socks $8 and gloves $15. Pants are special custom order and I'm not sure of the price.

[MacEntyre]

What are the best materials, layers and amounts of clothes to wear if you are not concerned with over heating, but only warmth and moisture management...?

Warmth is achieved by using insulation.

Moisture is managed by a) vapor permeability, and b) preventing overheating.

I like to use no more than three or four layers in really cold weather.

The amount of clothing to wear depends on your level of activity... you wear layers so that you can remove a layer to prevent over heating, or add a layer if you stop being active.

't'aint rocket surgery!

- MacEntyre