New Year condensation issues-Spindrift

[cfi on the fly]

I brought the new year in by doing my first real winter camping in my RidgeRunner. I had the superfly for my tarp, a 0 degree lynx for an UQ, and used the Spindrift for the first time for more protection from expected flurries and increased warmth. I used a 15 degree sleeping bag with a golite one season quilt drapped over the bag. The temperature last night dropped to 3 degrees Fahrenheit.

I brought a fridge thermometer out with me and measured the temp outside the tarp and also the temperature within the spindrift after giving it and myself time to warm up. Surprisingly, there was not any difference in temperature. If I kept the thermometer close to my bag it showed warmer, but I thought a truer test was to measure in the open air above my body. This was disappointing as I was hoping for it to show warmer with the spindrift attached.

However, warmth was not an issue because the UQ performed wonderfully as well as my top bags. What was an issue was the condensation that formed in the spindrift. By the end of the night I actually had ice crystals falling from the inside of the spindrift onto my face. The pics show the inside ceiling of the spindrift and the other shows the RR where you can clearly see the line where the lynx UQ protected and where it did not. The Spindrift was fully closed.

The idea behind using the spindrift was to increase warmth, which it did not, and also for protection from blowing snow and wind so that a smaller tarp could be used-which I think it would. But with these kind of condensation issues I don't know if it's worth carrying or not.

Anybody have any solutions or experience with this? Would a vapor layer solve it? Venting the spindrift is what I will try next, but if this is the only solution then the spindrift to me is only useful as basically a UQ protector.

[Shug]

All I can tell you is that I went through trying socks and they warmed me but I always had a lot of condensation and ice-crytals falling on me and gear too.
I am a moisture machine. Seems to work for some and not for others.
I even added a big face hole but still got condensation.
Carry forth.....
Shug

[cfi on the fly]

Hi Shug....

Did you eventually just give up on the sock idea? I like the added protection, but the moisture could be a deal breaker for me.

[Shug]

Hi Shug....

Did you eventually just give up on the sock idea? I like the added protection, but the moisture could be a deal breaker for me.

I did give up on it. Besides the added weight and condensation issues I was fine with it. Had to test for myself.
I also like to see the woods when I awaken. I stay warm in winter camping with my current set-ups so all is goodly.
Don't like being all closed in...to much like being in a sealed up tent to me.
But I am glad for those that like them and have success with them.
Shug

[BillyBob58]

VB fan here, but I don't think a VB would help your situation unless your head is some how outside of your sock. Reason being that I imagine the amount of vapor that you exhale dwarfs the vapor coming off of your body.

Using a Shug style ( Hello Shug ! ) fleece bib hanging from the ridge line and around your neck and right in front of your face might catch the majority of that breath condensation, if the fleece is cold enough near your face for condensation to occur. Probably would be. If that was the case, or again your breath vapor could escape from the Spindrift, then VB clothing or bag liner would pretty well cut all other vapor sources to zero. No vapor escaping you and hitting the cold spindrift, no condensation. And no snow storms within the sock.

Here is a thought on the disappointing temps within your sock: If you had a 15F sleeping bag plus another 15 or 20 worth of protection from your TQ, plus whatever warm clothing, probably very little of your body heat escaped all of that to contribute any warming inside the sock. So very little heat loss, unlike the 400 ml or so of water that you might push out into the cold room of your Spindrift!

Correction before I even post: being an anesthesia pro, or gas passer, I decided to refresh my memory and looked it up in an anesthesia source and I am surprised to see that normal insensible ( not counting sweat ) vapor/water loss per day ( in an unstressed adult ) is 400 ml from exhalation and also 400 ml from the skin! And this is in a hospital setting most likely, probably increased if in very cold, dry outdoor air, which probably would count as a stress.

http://www.anaesthesiamcq.com/FluidBook/fl3_2.php

The minimal insensible loss in an adult is about 800 mls.

I was wrong on that assumption of more vapor breathed out than from the skin. So that's 800 ml a day ( think of that, most of your 1 liter water bottle ) under indoor, unstressed conditions. Break that down into hours and multiply by hours sleeping in the cold, dry air ( and maybe increased rate because of this ) and that is a significant amount of vapor looking for a place to condense. Probably between 200 and 400 ml per night. You can cut it in half by using VBs, but the amount breathed out will still be enough to cause havoc unless you can vent it out somehow.

[OutandBack]

I had this same issue when using a BBO on my wbbb.
I gave up on top covers for the last two winters but have decided to try again mostly do to blowing snow up under the tarp.
but with venting this time. My first two backyard test were successful.
Just like the tarp there will be some condensation if the conditions are right I don't think you can get away from that.

Looking forward to your venting test.

[jokerr]

I have the same setup as you. Superfly,RR ,winter lynx and spindrift.
Last night was my first try with spindrift. I set up my tarp in my backyard about 5 pm.
I came out a couple of hours later to set up hammock and found ice crystals
on the under side my tarp. I setup my hammock and spindrift and went to sleep, some hours later I wake to find ice crystals on the spindrift.

I can't attribute all the ice to my heat or breathing because there was ice underneath
the tarp before I was there, so there is some other factor involved.

Anyway, you have a great hammock combo. The winter Lynx just can't be beat for
ease of use and warmth. I am going to keep trying the spindrift under different
conditions. It may be best with wind and rain than with cold temps.

[TheBrewGuy]

I just got back from a winter hang in Allegheny National Forest. Temps were 18F and 24F for lows the two nights. I made a DIY hammock from 1.1 ripstop. It's double layer with a top cover sewn on one side and zippered up the other side. I made the top cover so that when its zipped all the way up there is still a hole at the head end. I got some condensation inside but I think having a vent hole made a big difference. Most of the moisture from my breath ended up on my sleeping bag in front of my face. Next time I will try a "frost bib" like I've seen Shug use. It looks to me like the material isn't breathable enough or needs a vent hole.

[TheBrewGuy]

Also, I didn't take a temp reading to see the difference the top cover made, but when I unzipped it in the morning to get out, it was noticeably colder outside.

[rngn]

After testing the spindrift many times condensation can be a very big problem. That being said problem #1. If there is no wind threw out the night the bigger the problem with condensation exist, If there is a atleast 10mph wind threw out the night condensation will be almost non existent even with the spindrift zipped up because the wind allows the spindrift to breath. In my testing I found that if there was no wind with the spindrift completely unzipped still had considerable condensation, But the colder it was the better because at 14 degrees instead my top quilt and spindrift being wet everything was frozen which made it a lot easier to shake the ice off the top quilt and spindrift, But when its only low 30s everything is wet and you now have wet gear that you have to put back into your pack and carry, If your staying another night down the trail now you have a wet top quilt and spindrift to contend with . So what is the answer to the questin "I dont know" my next test is going to make bib like shugs only out of a sham wow to see if it will collect up most of the condensation.