Cold weather gear question

[TonyF]

Just bought a HH Explorer deluxe with larger Hex tarp and want to try it on some snowy nights in the 20 degree range. I have poured over a lot of posts and visited a few other sites, but am more confused as to how to stay warm. I sleep cold and currently have a 10 degree Wiggy synthetic sleeping bag, a Thermorest camp rest 2" pad and space blanket. I thought this would be sufficient, but reading about condensation from the space blanket and how pads bunch up and make pressure point leads me to think I need additional gear. I was thinking of a JRB weather shield as an undercover and putting the Thermorest and space blanket in that. Not knowing if that would be warm enough, I wondered if an Exped Down 9 mat would be better but don't know if that goes inside the hammock or in an undercover. But if I sleep cold, is it better to get a down underquilt. What would be helpful is some sort of reference on the forum that would show what temperature ranges one could expect using various combinations of basic gear ie: undercover alone, undercover with 2 or 3 different pads, then with various down loft thicknesses. I know there would be a lot of variables, but it is tough for a newbie to wade through all of this and try not to make a mistake ordering too little or too much gear. Recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Tony

[FanaticFringer]

Just bought a HH Explorer deluxe with larger Hex tarp and want to try it on some snowy nights in the 20 degree range. I have poured over a lot of posts and visited a few other sites, but am more confused as to how to stay warm. I sleep cold and currently have a 10 degree Wiggy synthetic sleeping bag, a Thermorest camp rest 2" pad and space blanket. I thought this would be sufficient, but reading about condensation from the space blanket and how pads bunch up and make pressure point leads me to think I need additional gear. I was thinking of a JRB weather shield as an undercover and putting the Thermorest and space blanket in that. Not knowing if that would be warm enough, I wondered if an Exped Down 9 mat would be better but don't know if that goes inside the hammock or in an undercover. But if I sleep cold, is it better to get a down underquilt. What would be helpful is some sort of reference on the forum that would show what temperature ranges one could expect using various combinations of basic gear ie: undercover alone, undercover with 2 or 3 different pads, then with various down loft thicknesses. I know there would be a lot of variables, but it is tough for a newbie to wade through all of this and try not to make a mistake ordering too little or too much gear. Recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Tony

I'd forget about the space blanket. Although some use them. Pads work fine for many folks around here. JRB weathershield might add an additional 6-10 degrees at most. Put pads in hammock, not between hammock and weathershield. Although it can be done, just not popular to do. The Exped downmat 9 should take you down to about as cold as you would ever camp in. It would go inside the hammock.
Down underquilts are a great option. Many use both pad(s) and underquilt in really cold weather. The learning curve will take some time and effort but will be worth it. It's actually quite fun. Here's some info. that might help. http://www.hammockcamping.com/Free%2...leFoamPads.htm Be sure to check out Jeff's awesome site. www.tothewoods.net/HammockGroundWeights.html

[FanaticFringer]

www.jacksrbetter.com/Warm%20Article.htm

http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Nesting%...Old%20Coot.htm

[Youngblood]

Just bought a HH Explorer deluxe with larger Hex tarp and want to try it on some snowy nights in the 20 degree range. I have poured over a lot of posts and visited a few other sites, but am more confused as to how to stay warm. I sleep cold and currently have a 10 degree Wiggy synthetic sleeping bag, a Thermorest camp rest 2" pad and space blanket. ...

What you got will likely keep you warm enough. I'm not sure how you were planing on using the space blanket. You may need something if your pad isn't wide enough to help out at your shoulders-- well placed clothes or stuff sacks are one option with that or you can use the segmented pad extender arrangement that will hold insulation in place along the sides of 20 inch wide pads.

[Just Jeff]

Some people are perfectly comfortable with pads. It's usually CCF pads that they complain about bunching up for pressure points. They complain about Thermarest pads squirting out from under them in a HH. Downmats are very comfortable but you have to inflate them...couple minutes added to setup time.

Couple points here. Your Thermarest might get you to 20F, but you'll need insulation on your shoulders. The hammock will wrap around the side of the pad and squish your sleeping bag to your shoulders, causing cold spots. You should look into the SPE by www.speerhammocks.com.

If you get the Downmat, especially the 9 cm thick version (Downmat 9), you may be high enough that the hammock can't squish your insulation. I don't use a SPE with my Downmat 7. It will go inside the hammock.

I don't think an undercover like the weather shield will hold a pad tightly enough to the hammock to keep you warm. Some people put sleeping bags in there...not as well-fitted as an underquilt but if it fits the budget you can make it work.

But if I sleep cold, is it better to get a down underquilt.

Not necessarily, but many of us find it's more comfortable. You can stay just as warm with pads as long as you don't get the back sweats.

What would be helpful is some sort of reference on the forum that would show what temperature ranges one could expect using various combinations of basic gear ie: undercover alone, undercover with 2 or 3 different pads, then with various down loft thicknesses.

True statement. There's a chart that has a general starting point for that floating around the internet. I'll look it up later if someone doesn't beat me to it. In general, people find the JRB Nest and No Sniveler, and the Speer SnugFit, underquilts suitable for temps above 30F. Thicker gets you lower.

Bottom line - Try the cheapest route first. I think adding a Speer SPE and a cheap Walmart CCF pad would get you to 20F with that bag. You could probably cut the CCF to torso-length, even. The SPE would help with the TR-squirt, too. If you end up not liking pads, you can surely sell the SPE here and put the money towards an underquilt.

[Take-a-knee]

Get the Speer SPE like Jeff said. I like mine with a thermarest, but your camprest will be too wide for it.

[Youngblood]

Get the Speer SPE like Jeff said. I like mine with a thermarest, but your camprest will be too wide for it.

If the camp rest is too wide for the SPE, what is going to do with it? I like for people to buy them, but for the right reasons.

[TonyF]

Great input on gear. Thanks for taking the time to help out a newbie. If I get a Downmat 9 , I am concerned about the bottom of the HH getting wet in wind driven rain or heavy fog using an large tarp. That was my thought is getting an under cover.

[Just Jeff]

Pick a protected site or buy a larger tarp (or both) and you'll be ok. The HH is DWR so unless you're right in the downpour it won't come thru the hammock. I actually left my HH in a light rain once with no tarpj, and it was holding about a cup of water when I came back...not advertised as waterproof but it was close.

A bigger issue with the Downmat 9 is how much higher you'll lay in the hammock. The Downmat 7 keeps the hammock from compressing my shoulder insulation, but it also puts my face closer to the bug net (not enough to stop using the pad though), and changes the center of gravity slightly. I doubt either of those are enough to discourage using it in the hammock but you'll see what I mean when you try it.

[BillyBob58]

.............................

Bottom line - Try the cheapest route first. I think adding a Speer SPE and a cheap Walmart CCF pad would get you to 20F with that bag. You could probably cut the CCF to torso-length, even. The SPE would help with the TR-squirt, too. If you end up not liking pads, you can surely sell the SPE here and put the money towards an underquilt.

And, try a Speer SPE ( http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/SPE.htm ) with your Thermarest you already have, or your Thermarest AND the cheap Walmart CCF together. Considering you sleep cold. Start with one and just be ready to add the other if you are cold. If you need the CCF addition at all, you will probably be able to cut it in half and just add it under your torso. I spent a very toasty night in the low 20s or lower, with Speer SPE, holding a Thermarest Ridgerest ( CCF) and Ultralight torso sized ( 1" thick), plus some cc foam in the wings to keep my shoulders warm.

Now the advantage of the SPE is that it helps you to tame the pad so it doesn't slip out from under you, allows you to stack more than one pad for extreme temps, and allows you to put something in the side wings ( pieces of CCF, or clothing) to keep your hips and shoulders warm. It is not very expensive and for that reason is a good place to start. BUT, some folks don't like pads ( in a hammock) under any conditions. So if there is anyway you can test a pad short term first, to see if you can stand the feel of it or if you have back sweat issues, while mentally allowing for the way the SPE would improve control, that would save you a possibly wasted purchase. Or better yet, Speer might allow you to return it if it didn't work for you, but you would still lose shipping 2 ways.

I don't see how a space blanket will help your current situation. Some of us find it works great to extend the range of insulation when placed ON TOP of insulation that is suspended under us, like a HH SuperShelter OCF pad, or a Speer PeaPod and also I'm pretty sure Speer SnugFits and JRB under quilts, though I have not tried one with the latter.

A down UQ will not necessarily get you to the low 20s by itself, especially if you are a cold sleeper. You have to make sure the quilt is thick enough and you have it adjusted correctly, which can be learning curve. The snug fitting varieties ( Speer Snugfit, JRB Mt. Washington, Warbonnet) are far less forgiving of adjustments- just make them snug, mostly.

EDIT: OK, I just saw you have a Camprest, so that will be too wide to use with the SPE- unless you or a friend has another less wide pad TR to try, you will have to stick with the cheap WM pad. Like Jeff said to start with. Or, you can get 2 cheap pads and stack them in the SPE, either with both full length or just one full length, plus cut the other pad and use double thickness under the torso only.